How much do u know about Greece?

[El Greco]

Hi guys!
I'm starting this thread in order to understand how many of Uzbek citizens know something about country of Greece and the role that this country played in the past in the history of Uzbekistan.

[Frida]

Hi guys!
I'm starting this thread in order to understand how many of Uzbek citizens know something about country of Greece and the role that this country played in the past in the history of Uzbekistan.

there were many Greeks in Tashkent (during soviet times), I am not sure how they got there. :)

what do i know about Greece??? lemme think.

They speak Greek, and there are two dialects of Greek, as far as I know one is preferred by democrats the second by conservatives (this might have happened centuries ago:D, but that is the thing that came to my mind :), if i am wrong i am sorry)

Cyprus and all the related problems.

Orthodox church and all the Saints you guys believe in, why do you have so many?

what else..... feta cheese, olives, greek salad, gyro, dolmades, mousakka....

names that end with -potus, -us, -is, -exis, -illa

oh, and then that song, they sing in weddings. i do not know the name.

[El Greco]

there were many Greeks in Tashkent (during soviet times), I am not sure how they got there. :)

what do i know about Greece??? lemme think.

They speak Greek, and there are two dialects of Greek, as far as I know one is preferred by democrats the second by conservatives (this might have happened centuries ago:D, but that is the thing that came to my mind :), if i am wrong i am sorry)

Cyprus and all the related problems.

Orthodox church and all the Saints you guys believe in, why do you have so many?

what else..... feta cheese, olives, greek salad, gyro, dolmades, mousakka....

names that end with -potus, -us, -is, -exis, -illa

oh, and then that song, they sing in weddings. i do not know the name.

Greeks who were located in Tashkent and in U-stan in general, where moved by Soviets and most of them were political refuges to S.U after Greek civil war ended in 1948.

Today there r 3 dialects of Greek. 1st New Greek Common, 2nd Cypriot, 3rd Pontish or Pontic(pontiaka)
I see u are aware about Greek cusine!:D

Go ahead say whatever u know,share yr knowledge with others, help to built relations among our nations! Don't hesitate if u don't know much.

[El Greco]

I forgot to mention Grecanica another dialect of Greek, spoken in Central - South Italy

[Qarama]

my grandparents used to live in Thessaloniki, but after the war they had to move to Turkey. And they knew a greek dialect which we call "rumca" (roumcha).

they said "pidomou kala" to me or "posesi kala esi?" :D

[El Greco]

When visited U-stan and went to National archeological and historical Museum, i saw ancient status arround 100 b.c, very much alike to greek status. I recognised the art in theese as Greek influence. I did a little research after going back to my country. Alexander the Great had been the first to cross over the area of nowdays U-stan, a passage to the famous road of silk. He, after conquered the country, left some of his people back and established cities that gave greek names. For more than 200 years a huge area of T-stan,U-stan,A-stan etc, was under control of the successors of Alexander. They ruled very succesfully with the spirit of equality and justice of greek coultoure.They had been a relief for the people's of the area if somebody consider how hard their life was under the Persian domination.
Some say that even Roxana, the wife of Alexander, was from territory near today's Samarkand.

[ikbaljohn]

учтепада,ватан кинотеатрига якин жойдеги анор кафесида битта миллати грек официантка ишлайди :d
греция футбол тжсини устози отто рехагель.
хозирча шу билганларим

[El Greco]

my grandparents used to live in Thessaloniki, but after the war they had to move to Turkey. And they knew a greek dialect which we call "rumca" (roumcha).

they said "pidomou kala" to me or "posesi kala esi?" :D

Rumca is Greek that Turks of Greece used to speak and i think it is still spoken in Turkey in many towns and cities that sheltered people after population exchange.
Thanks for yr post my friend. Don't forget that no nation has the war or conflect in its blood. We can be friends no matter the past,respecting each other's rights and dominance in our own countries.:)

[El Greco]

учтепада,ватан кинотеатрига якин жойдеги анор кафесида битта миллати грек официантка ишлайди :d
греция футбол тжсини устози отто рехагель.
хозирча шу билганларим

I do not quite speak russian or uzbek, so if u be kind, post yr replies in english:D

[infolife]

I have a greek friend in my course who is very hot-tempered.I hear greeks are usually hot tempered though:D. And they hate turks for lots of reasons I beleive. I dont fully know that bit of history yet.

There has been a huge ethnic cleansing as a peace settlement after the last Turk-Greece war. However, I beleive greeks and turks have been integrated a lot into each others community and have closer relationship. Therefore these two nations look alike.

Religionwise, strongly orthodox christian.People tend to have big families and established family values are seen very much compared to the rest of EU.

Language, I only know that ancient Greek is taught at schools compulsory but people speak modern greek language.Nothing about dialects you mentioned.

[El Greco]

I have a greek friend in my course who is very hot-tempered.I hear greeks are usually hot tempered though:D. And they hate turks for lots of reasons I beleive. I dont fully know that bit of history yet.

There has been a huge ethnic cleansing as a peace settlement after the last Turk-Greece war. However, I beleive greeks and turks have been integrated a lot into each others community and have closer relationship. Therefore these two nations look alike.

Religionwise, strongly orthodox christian.People tend to have big families and established family values are seen very much compared to the rest of EU.

Language, I only know that ancient Greek is taught at schools compulsory but people speak modern greek language.Nothing about dialects you mentioned.

We do not hate Turks not at least anymore. Maybe in the past, due to wars. Societies in both countries have changed a lot since that time and scorred serious progress.

[Qarama]

what i can say is that in every nation ultra nationalists or racists exist which is normal.

[El Greco]

I have some photos from Greece especially for yr eyes only!:D

[El Greco]

More of Greece

[El Greco]

More of Greece part 2

[infolife]

We do not hate Turks not at least anymore. Maybe in the past, due to wars. Societies in both countries have changed a lot since that time and scorred serious progress.

Well, my friend does. We have lots of greeks here and most of them anti turk from what I gather in coversing with them.

Nevertheless, I am indeed very happy to read your statement above:)

ps:do you work for some kind of tourist company by the way?

[El Greco]

More of Greece part 3

[El Greco]

Well, my friend does. We have lots of greeks here and most of them anti turk from what I gather in coversing with them.

Nevertheless, I am indeed very happy to read your statement above:)

ps:do you work for some kind of tourist company by the way?

Thanks for yr comments! Hehehe, i do not work in tourist bussiness.:D My purpose was to show to people that are interested the beauty of Greece

[El Greco]

More of Greece part 4

[InnamoratoPazzo]

My Greek friend says that Greek is the most difficult language in the world :-)

I am a fan of everything related to Ancient Greece and its History. I also read Anabasis by Xenophon, amazing book! Iliad, Odyssey, variuos legends...

I also know that so-called "macedonians" are trying to claim your history, that's ridiculous :eyecrazy:

And I hope to visit your beautiful country sometime in the future!

[El Greco]

My Greek friend says that Greek is the most difficult language in the world :-)

I am a fan of everything related to Ancient Greece and its History. I also read Anabasis by Xenophon, amazing book! Iliad, Odyssey, variuos legends...

I also know that so-called "macedonians" are trying to claim your history, that's ridiculous :eyecrazy:

And I hope to visit your beautiful country sometime in the future!

Thanks for yr comments! Indid Greek is perhaps the most dificult mother tongue in the world but also the most poetic. What can i say! Keep reading u r in good way. Have u read Aristoteles or Platon? U should.
"I also know that so-called "macedonians" are trying to claim your history, that's ridiculous :eyecrazy:" I gave my answer in another thread i'm sure u have read it. No hard feelings for the neighbours,trueth is trueth and shall light like the sun in the noon. History will judge all of us.
You are all welcome to Greece!:)

[El Greco]

By the way Happy Valentine's day to all of you people!

[InnamoratoPazzo]

Have u read Aristoteles or Platon? U should.


Yea, Im already on this way, I mean Im about to read them. I used to read some of their short masterpieces before.
Soon Im gonna read "Timaeus" and "Critias".

the problem is that their language is so difficult to follow, I mean they r written in archaic style.:D but that's not gonna stop me anyway!

[infolife]

btw, I forgot to mention, greeks dont seem to get on well with albanians and apparently albanians in Greece are treated like second class citizens. Is that true?

[InnamoratoPazzo]

thanks for your answers El Greco!

What is the average salary in Greece?
Do you have a migration to more prosperous countries like Germany, UK...?

[El Greco]

btw, I forgot to mention, greeks dont seem to get on well with albanians and apparently albanians in Greece are treated like second class citizens. Is that true?

Look with albanians has been a misunderstanding. I mean when in 1990 communism collapsed in Albania, prisons in Albania, released the detainees. All theese nice and peacefull people crossed the borders before we notice. The result was to continue their criminal actions in Greece. Many Greek people had lost their lives for just 500 drachmas which is 1,5 euro. If you imagine the picture in local media to speak about Albanians all the time and the most recent killings, what do u think?! People were angry with them.
Years by years , the situation changed and those bad guys are in the place they belong prison.

[El Greco]

thanks for your answers El Greco!

What is the average salary in Greece?
Do you have a migration to more prosperous countries like Germany, UK...?
Today there is migration towards greece my friend because life quality here is better than countries u name.
Average salary depends, i can tell 800-850 euro for non specialised worker(5days - 8 hours)
But u have to take under mind the general cost of living which is a lot more down to earth compare to rest western countries

[fidis]

my teacher at school was Greek. though she left Tashkent a couple of years ago.

she was a daughter of one of those refugees you talked about. many of them left u-tan in the end of 1950s i guess, btu there were also many that remained there.

I play Malaka very often. :D

And I proposed once to a Greek girl after having some Greek food, well, i was also a bit drunk from ouzo.

so far from me :D

[El Greco]

At this point i say Goodnight!
Gr time 21:24
Ooops i'm late! She is gonna kill me)))

[Tabriz_Han]

El_Greco
For more than 200 years a huge area of T-stan,U-stan,A-stan etc, was under control of the successors of Alexander. They ruled very succesfully with the spirit of equality and justice of greek coultoure.They had been a relief for the people's of the area if somebody consider how hard their life was under the Persian domination.


Alexander the Great like Ghenghiz Kagan was one of the great conquerers. Millitarilly they were incredible, however, trying to present them as humanists is a little far fetched to say the least. They were more interested in annihalating enemies and being feared rulers instead of what we today consider to be "civillised".

They didn't rule particularly sucessfully, their descendants squabled over their fathers land, within a few centuries they had destroyed themselves and their states collapsed.

O'zbekistans history has a legacy in Greece aswell :)

[El Greco]

Alexander the Great like Ghenghiz Kagan was one of the great conquerers. Millitarilly they were incredible, however, trying to present them as humanists is a little far fetched to say the least. They were more interested in annihalating enemies and being feared rulers instead of what we today consider to be "civillised".

They didn't rule particularly sucessfully, their descendants squabled over their fathers land, within a few centuries they had destroyed themselves and their states collapsed.

O'zbekistans history has a legacy in Greece aswell :)

My dear friend,maybe in some points u r right. I will agree with u that successors of Alexander were not like him strong personalities.They left themselves to be occupied by egoism and soon after the death of Alexander, began fight among them, to finally succeed to divide empire in parts.
But the legacy that the great man gave them, was to order peoples with spirit of equality and justice.This is prooved by the last words(we can say will)of Alexander to his generals,words that have remain to us upon now,because general Parmenion had recorded to paper.
The strugle of Alexander was not against the nations.

[El Greco]

Alexander the Great like Ghenghiz Kagan was one of the great conquerers. Millitarilly they were incredible, however, trying to present them as humanists is a little far fetched to say the least. They were more interested in annihalating enemies and being feared rulers instead of what we today consider to be "civillised".

They didn't rule particularly sucessfully, their descendants squabled over their fathers land, within a few centuries they had destroyed themselves and their states collapsed.

O'zbekistans history has a legacy in Greece aswell :)

One of the main contribution of Alexander's expedition to the coultoure of the area that still remains is that peoples still remember this great man.
He encouraged art and trade and he practically open the road that we today know as "silk road". He also encouraged the peoples of the areas he ruled to absorb Greek thought.He did not made any discrimination between greeks and "others",by national orientation. He used to say everybody is greek if he has the same education as we have.

[Black]

My Greek coursemates used to say: A Rich Greek sends his son to study to the US, middle class to the UK and the wise ones remain in Greece to study. Something similar. And they used to swear ("M" word) too much.

[El Greco]

what i can say is that in every nation ultra nationalists or racists exist which is normal.

Neither the war expedition to Minor Asia (modern Turkey) was right and justified it was a clear militaristic move, but neither the slutter of 3.000.000 people(most of them Greeks but also Armenians) was justified or right or needed. Theese crimes happened in a period of time where entire world was in a phace of ethnicism and darkness.
The sad thing is to see that today the persons who were reponsible are beeing worship as they were Gods.

[El Greco]

My Greek coursemates used to say: A Rich Greek sends his son to study to the US, middle class to the UK and the wise ones remain in Greece to study. Something similar. And they used to swear ("M" word) too much.

What exactly do u mean by saying "M word"?

[El Greco]

My Greek coursemates used to say: A Rich Greek sends his son to study to the US, middle class to the UK and the wise ones remain in Greece to study. Something similar. And they used to swear ("M" word) too much.

Swear is prohibited by Christian religion. I think in Muslim too.

[Black]

What exactly do u mean by saying "M word"?
Let us not to use this word here. If you are a Greek from the Greece, then you know it very well.

Swear is prohibited by Christian religion. I think in Muslim too.

Oh, well, did I say those guys were practising Cristians? I didn't know even whether they believe in God. Of course, there were few nice guys as well, Intellegent, behaved well, we used to talk a lot with these guys (actually I remember two of them). The other guys were not bad as well, they all were OK, but used to swear each other very much. I think they simply get used to that word, like Americans get used to "F" word. And they (some of them) used to mock others, especially chinise guys. They did much noise, they behaved as if everywhere they go is their home and can shout as much as they want.
Overall, they were not that bad guys, except their noises. : )

[Qarama]

Neither the war expedition to Minor Asia (modern Turkey) was right and justified it was a clear militaristic move, but neither the slutter of 3.000.000 people(most of them Greeks but also Armenians) was justified or right or needed. Theese crimes happened in a period of time where entire world was in a phace of ethnicism and darkness.
The sad thing is to see that today the persons who were reponsible are beeing worship as they were Gods.

3.000.000 people? :?
today the persons who were reponsible are beeing worship as they were Gods :?І

i don't think you are right but i think it will be better if we don't speak about turco-greek wars or that kind of things trust me :rolleyes:


i like greek music. for example "gianna terzi - pou kai pou" or "Sarmpel - Sokolata". I was in Greece last summer and in Thessaloniki it is a beautiful city.

[Demir Kağan]

Turk and Greek culture is really very close after hundreds of years that we lived together in.

Welcome, man! :)

[Kaptan-i Derya]

Neither the war expedition to Minor Asia (modern Turkey) was right and justified it was a clear militaristic move, but neither the slutter of 3.000.000 people....

:rolleyes:

[El Greco]

3.000.000 people? :?
today the persons who were reponsible are beeing worship as they were Gods :?І

i don't think you are right but i think it will be better if we don't speak about turco-greek wars or that kind of things trust me :rolleyes:


i like greek music. for example "gianna terzi - pou kai pou" or "Sarmpel - Sokolata". I was in Greece last summer and in Thessaloniki it is a beautiful city.

I understand. This is so dificult matter and we are not the most quallified to speak about.I mean that whatever happened should stay in the past and not poison relations among two countries forever.
We have many things in common. Lets focus on them, so i agree with u.
If u notice i judge first greek leadership of that time

[El Greco]

Turk and Greek culture is really very close after hundreds of years that we lived together in.

Welcome, man! :)

Approved!:)

[El Greco]

3.000.000 people? :?
today the persons who were reponsible are beeing worship as they were Gods :?І

i don't think you are right but i think it will be better if we don't speak about turco-greek wars or that kind of things trust me :rolleyes:


i like greek music. for example "gianna terzi - pou kai pou" or "Sarmpel - Sokolata". I was in Greece last summer and in Thessaloniki it is a beautiful city.

You are always welcome to Greece! If people here would like, i could upload some songs for those who like greek music

[El Greco]

My Greek coursemates used to say: A Rich Greek sends his son to study to the US, middle class to the UK and the wise ones remain in Greece to study. Something similar. And they used to swear ("M" word) too much.

OK i got it!:lol: To me also brakes my nervs when i hear that M.
I think you choosed wrong word (swear):)

[El Greco]

my teacher at school was Greek. though she left Tashkent a couple of years ago.

she was a daughter of one of those refugees you talked about. many of them left u-tan in the end of 1950s i guess, btu there were also many that remained there.

I play Malaka very often. :D

And I proposed once to a Greek girl after having some Greek food, well, i was also a bit drunk from ouzo.

so far from me :D

Most of the greeks of U-stan left during late 80's and in the beginning of 90's, because Greek goverment gave them serious advantages if they would decide to return in motherland.
In my last travel i met a greekman in Samarkand tottaly accidentall. Man, he was so happy, i never forget him

[Qarama]

You are always welcome to Greece! If people here would like, i could upload some songs for those who like greek music

http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=37724&highlight=greek+music


btw. you can make multi quotes:)

[Maroon]

I went to Greece twice. It was wonderful! I love it!

[El Greco]

I went to Greece twice. It was wonderful! I love it!

Did you go as a tourist or invited as guest by someone? And which places did you visit?

[El Greco]

http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=37724&highlight=greek+music


btw. you can make multi quotes:)

Hey guys u r doing great work! :D

[Uzbekxonim]

Hi guys!
I'm starting this thread in order to understand how many of Uzbek citizens know something about country of Greece and the role that this country played in the past in the history of Uzbekistan.

don't want to be mean, why would you care about our knowledge of the role of Greece in the history of Uzbekistan? I understand some people in religious board that want to educate some 'uneducated' persons, but what is your aim with this thread?
ps. no offence, just curious
ps.2 smhow i dont like Greeks verry much

[El Greco]

don't want to be mean, why would you care about our knowledge of the role of Greece in the history of Uzbekistan? I understand some people in religious board that want to educate some 'uneducated' persons, but what is your aim with this thread?
ps. no offence, just curious
ps.2 smhow i dont like Greeks verry much

Well, i just thought it is nice idea to put some tiny little stone in Uzbek-Greek relations and help your people to learn about my country and our people about your country. Of course anybody can say No, we are democrats!:)

[Demir Kağan]

Let me ask you something. What do you know about Uzbek Turks & Turks of Turkey? :D

[Uzbekxonim]

Well, i just thought it is nice idea to put some tiny little stone in Uzbek-Greek relations and help your people to learn about my country and our people about your country. Of course anybody can say No, we are democrats!:)

so u r Greek :lol:
no more comment then, u-Greeks like to argue so much, and your understanding of democracy is equal to egoism, how do u like my knowledge about Greeks? :lol:
ps. how come Greek is on Uzbek forum? dating an Uzbek girl?

[El Greco]

don't want to be mean, why would you care about our knowledge of the role of Greece in the history of Uzbekistan? I understand some people in religious board that want to educate some 'uneducated' persons, but what is your aim with this thread?
ps. no offence, just curious
ps.2 smhow i dont like Greeks verry much

Besides, i strongly believe two nations have many things in common not only history but also food,music,people that lived in U-stan and miss it, and many other

[El Greco]

Let me ask you something. What do you know about Uzbek Turks & Turks of Turkey? :D

Not much really. I would be delighted to learn

[El Greco]

so u r Greek :lol:
no more comment then, u-Greeks like to argue so much, and your understanding of democracy is equal to egoism, how do u like my knowledge about Greeks? :lol:
ps. how come Greek is on Uzbek forum? dating an Uzbek girl?

"ps. how come Greek is on Uzbek forum? dating an Uzbek girl?[/quote]"

That's the nice thing about internet! You can join greek forums too.
Can you express more detailed why u don't like greek people?
No i don't date an Uzbek girl:)

[El Greco]

so u r Greek :lol:
no more comment then, u-Greeks like to argue so much, and your understanding of democracy is equal to egoism, how do u like my knowledge about Greeks? :lol:
ps. how come Greek is on Uzbek forum? dating an Uzbek girl?

"u-Greeks like to argue so much, and your understanding of democracy is equal to egoism, how do u like my knowledge about Greeks? :lol:"

I disagree with u as far as it has to do with our view of Democrasy, but i fully respect yr opinion

[NanOnaN]

My knowledge mainly from my father's stories, who visited Greece many times for his research project.
Capital is Athens, there are many nice beaches.
They have musical instrument Buzuki? :)
Old city, Coliseum, and many great philosophers.. thats it

[El Greco]

My knowledge mainly from my father's stories, who visited Greece many times for his research project.
Capital is Athens, there are many nice beaches.
They have musical instrument Buzuki? :)
Old city, Coliseum, and many great philosophers.. thats it

yes buzuki is the most known greek musical instrument but there are also many others like bulgari,laouto,lyra etc

[InnamoratoPazzo]

:lool: There is a russian singer Fillip Kirkorov. He used to sing in duo with a greek singer Sakis Rouvas.
My greek friend told me that Sakis starred recently in a movie which supposed to be a drama, but his performance was so ridiculous that they changed it into a comedy :lool:

is this true? what is Sakis doing now?

[El Greco]

http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=37724&highlight=greek+music


btw. you can make multi quotes:)


:lool: There is a russian singer Fillip Kirkorov. He used to sing in duo with a greek singer Sakis Rouvas.
My greek friend told me that Sakis starred recently in a movie which supposed to be a drama, but his performance was so ridiculous that they changed it into a comedy :lool:

is this true? what is Sakis doing now?

Ahh the famous Sakis!!! I don't know what he is doing now frankly. Maybe... reading his next role?:D:D:D
Definatelly go for Oskar:lool:

[El Greco]

:lool: There is a russian singer Fillip Kirkorov. He used to sing in duo with a greek singer Sakis Rouvas.
My greek friend told me that Sakis starred recently in a movie which supposed to be a drama, but his performance was so ridiculous that they changed it into a comedy :lool:

is this true? what is Sakis doing now?

I haven't seen the film so i can't say about his skills in acting,but as a singer he is dumn well

[El Greco]

http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=37724&highlight=greek+music


btw. you can make multi quotes:)

Some modern Greek music hits which im fond of.

[Tabriz_Han]

El_Greco
But the legacy that the great man gave them, was to order peoples with spirit of equality and justice.

Alexander was less interested in equality and justice and more with war, invasion and being a warrior.

His aim was not to be a some humanist ruler, he was a conquerer, he lived to fight and kill. Today we may have some "moral" issues with a guy who was bloodthirsty and enjoyed burning cities to the ground but it was what he was proud of and famous for. In his day and age this was not seen as some criminal acts, lets not confuse the ages.



El_Greco
The strugle of Alexander was not against the nations.

He thought many nations and destroyed the Persian Empire.




El_Greco
One of the main contribution of Alexander's expedition to the coultoure of the area that still remains is that peoples still remember this great man.


He is remembered in Iran as a violent tyrant who burnt Persepolis to the ground and killed their people. Heroes of one country can be viewed in a different light in other countries, he undoubtedly a hero of Greeks and Macedonians but this doesn't transend borders.


Do you know about how O'zbekistan influenced Greece?

The Turks originated from that region, the Seljuks, Beyliks and the Ottomans have their roots there.

[Qarama]

but during the Seleucid/Macedonian period the turks lived more in the north, Transoxania was conquered later.

[InnamoratoPazzo]

[quote]Alexander was less interested in equality and justice and more with war, invasion and being a warrior.

How can you explain then the fact that he encouraged marriages betwen locals and greeks, his marriage to Roxana, and that he favoured persian commanders despite the resentment of the greek chiefs?




He thought many nations and destroyed the Persian Empire.


Come no, man! Persians themselves tryed to conquer Greece many times! Have you ever heard about Greek-Persian wars? Do not try to show them as angels!:D



He is remembered in Iran as a violent tyrant who burnt Persepolis to the ground and killed their people.

Many historians dont approve of Alexander's burning Persepolis, but Alexander explained this as a revenge for the persians' burning Athens.
so, I think, they are even.:D


he undoubtedly a hero of Greeks and Macedonians but this doesn't transend borders.

again you r trying to diminish his figure. How can you explain then hundreds of poems and books devoted to him by people of different cultures and epochs, describing him as just and the wisest king ever?

Firdawsi in his Shahname says that Alexander was the son of a persian king and macedoian princess:D.

In his "Saddi Iskandari" ("The wall of Alexander") great Alisher Navoi describes him as the righteous and wise ideal ruler, setting him as an example for all rulers. :D

Many khans, shahs and emirs of the following epochs were flattered by their court poets calling them "Iskandari soniy" - "the second Alexander".

Also the Roman emperors used to make piligrimages to his tomb in Egypt.

Let's be honest, Alexander is one of the central figures in Western culture and history. So it is at least not objective to say that he is a hero only for Greece and that "this does not trancsend borders".

I'm not saying he was an angel, yes he killed a lot of people, but as you said "In his day and age this was not seen as some criminal acts".

Yes, his figure is very controversial and I'm not trying to say that he is regarded as a hero in Iran.
I'm just writing it because your post is a litte bit biased, you are clrearly trying to neglect Alexander's role in history and his legacy (I don know why:D). and I urge you to be objective.:D

If you decide to answer to my post, please then answer to all points I highlighted:D

peace

[melo]

Alexander is also the reason they call walnuts "Greek nuts" instead of central asian nuts. :lol:

[Tabriz_Han]

InnamoratoPazzo
How can you explain then the fact that he encouraged marriages betwen locals and greeks, his marriage to Roxana, and that he favoured persian commanders despite the resentment of the greek chiefs?


This is common behaviour among conquerers, infact its difficult to find strong leaders who didn't behave in this way.

- Marriages into local dynasties and powerfull families is done for pollitical reasons, its been common practice since history began
- Favouring people not of the leaders descent has also been a common practice, its easier to rule foreigners they have no right to the throne, while people of the same nation can marry into and fabricate a lineage allowing them to contest for rulership.



Come no, man! Persians themselves tryed to conquer Greece many times! Have you ever heard about Greek-Persian wars? Do not try to show them as angels!

Alexander did destroy Persia. Persians also tries to destroy Greece, the two had wars and in the end Alexander was victorious. This doesn't make anyone good or evil, if Persia had the chance she would have done the same.



Many historians dont approve of Alexander's burning Persepolis, but Alexander explained this as a revenge for the persians' burning Athens.
so, I think, they are even.

Alexander burned down alot of cities, what greater achievement is there as a warrior to totally destroy your enemy.


again you r trying to diminish his figure. How can you explain then hundreds of poems and books devoted to him by people of different cultures and epochs, describing him as just and the wisest king ever?

These poems are not about how humane he was, they are about the great warrior.

You know, people tend to admire warriors after their death, even if they killed millions of people, its a weird aspect of humans, the strong and powerfull are respected even if they comit acts that we would find shocking.



Firdawsi in his Shahname says that Alexander was the son of a persian king and macedoian princess

Firdawsi was trying to save the embarrasment of total defeat ie make the enemy one of us so it doesn't seem so bad :D



In his "Saddi Iskandari" ("The wall of Alexander") great Alisher Navoi describes him as the righteous and wise ideal ruler, setting him as an example for all rulers.

Alisher Navoi describes the "ideal" of conquering the world as being from the from the perspective of the conquerer as for protecting the people of the world and creating universal justice.
The Turks have a soft-spot for warrior kings and leaders with ideals of world-domination :P


So it is at least not objective to say that he is a hero only for Greece and that "this does not trancsend borders".

He is not a national hero outside of Greece and Macedonia.


I'm just writing it because your post is a litte bit biased, you are clrearly trying to neglect Alexander's role in history and his legacy

There is nothing biased, he was a warrior king, burning down cities and destroying empires wasn't a "bad" thing for him it was an achievement, just because today this may be percieved as unacceptable behaviour doesn't mean it was back then. In the age of empires, Alexanders actions were a total sucess and is what made him so popular.

[odish]

Hi guys!
I'm starting this thread in order to understand how many of Uzbek citizens know something about country of Greece and the role that this country played in the past in the history of Uzbekistan.

I dun no about any kind role played greece in the history of Uzb ....
But i know nowadays smth about greek people , most of the fish and chips shops in the uk greek people or Greek-Cypriot People control and do the biznes , they maybe born in uk but originally come from Greece or Greek cyprus

P.S. Football: they r champion of the Europe , and in summer they r playing Euro 2008 as well, good international team

[El Greco]

This is common behaviour among conquerers, infact its difficult to find strong leaders who didn't behave in this way.

- Marriages into local dynasties and powerfull families is done for pollitical reasons, its been common practice since history began
- Favouring people not of the leaders descent has also been a common practice, its easier to rule foreigners they have no right to the throne, while people of the same nation can marry into and fabricate a lineage allowing them to contest for rulership.




Alexander did destroy Persia. Persians also tries to destroy Greece, the two had wars and in the end Alexander was victorious. This doesn't make anyone good or evil, if Persia had the chance she would have done the same.




Alexander burned down alot of cities, what greater achievement is there as a warrior to totally destroy your enemy.



These poems are not about how humane he was, they are about the great warrior.

You know, people tend to admire warriors after their death, even if they killed millions of people, its a weird aspect of humans, the strong and powerfull are respected even if they comit acts that we would find shocking.




Firdawsi was trying to save the embarrasment of total defeat ie make the enemy one of us so it doesn't seem so bad :D




Alisher Navoi describes the "ideal" of conquering the world as being from the from the perspective of the conquerer as for protecting the people of the world and creating universal justice.
The Turks have a soft-spot for warrior kings and leaders with ideals of world-domination :P



He is not a national hero outside of Greece and Macedonia.



There is nothing biased, he was a warrior king, burning down cities and destroying empires wasn't a "bad" thing for him it was an achievement, just because today this may be percieved as unacceptable behaviour doesn't mean it was back then. In the age of empires, Alexanders actions were a total sucess and is what made him so popular.

First of all, greetings my friend!
I will try to give my prespective to this issue,although i am not a historic,fact that justifies some mistakes in some parts.

Alexander indeed destroyed Persepolis,thing that was not his best highlight, but...do not forget that the first step was done by Persians who marched against Greece(twice) with absolutely no reason and they tryed (thank God unsuccesfully) to destroy Greek civilazitation(and maybe European history wouldn't be the same).
U say that Pesrains would have done the same if they had the chance. The trueth is they did completely burnt and demolish Macedonia and Thrace and Central Greece as well as the cities in Asia Minor coasts. They did whatever they could to destroy the rest of greece,but it wasnt in their hand after all:)

Maybe common marriages was a clever political action, however this doesnt reduce Alexander's vision of a united empire established in equality of peoples and in one education,rather than in ethnic parameters.

He is still a hero in yr areas. Do u know Kafir Kalash trieb? They live in Pakistan. They have thrills and tales about him and they also claim that their ancestors were Alexander's warriors who choosed to stay in their lands. He is still alive in legends of turkish triebs of the region.

Of course nobody said that Alexander was a humanitarian by the meanng we give today. He did his mistakes.Great men great mistakes:)

There were many great warlords from area of central Asia. Gengis qhan or Amir Timur for example but history named no one of them "Great".

Alexander's main attempt besides making an empire, was to spread the greek coultoure outside of his motherland and he was judged hard by his fellow patriots of his times,who could not see the reason why.

[El Greco]

I dun no about any kind role played greece in the history of Uzb ....
But i know nowadays smth about greek people , most of the fish and chips shops in the uk greek people or Greek-Cypriot People control and do the biznes , they maybe born in uk but originally come from Greece or Greek cyprus

P.S. Football: they r champion of the Europe , and in summer they r playing Euro 2008 as well, good international team


I dun no about any kind role played greece in the history of Uzb ....
Hi! Go back to page 1 i explain:)

[El Greco]

Alexander was less interested in equality and justice and more with war, invasion and being a warrior.

His aim was not to be a some humanist ruler, he was a conquerer, he lived to fight and kill. Today we may have some "moral" issues with a guy who was bloodthirsty and enjoyed burning cities to the ground but it was what he was proud of and famous for. In his day and age this was not seen as some criminal acts, lets not confuse the ages.




He thought many nations and destroyed the Persian Empire.




He is remembered in Iran as a violent tyrant who burnt Persepolis to the ground and killed their people. Heroes of one country can be viewed in a different light in other countries, he undoubtedly a hero of Greeks and Macedonians but this doesn't transend borders.


Do you know about how O'zbekistan influenced Greece?

The Turks originated from that region, the Seljuks, Beyliks and the Ottomans have their roots there.

Do you know about how O'zbekistan influenced Greece?

In my last trip to U-stan i heard a name of a town which franclly i dont remember now, but the name had something... and yes i recognised the name of a famous greek politician :D His name's history comes from this place,from yr country!
Yes i know turkish people origin comes from central asia somewhere in nowdays T-stan and K-stan.Speaking with some uzbek people i don't think they gave me the idea that believe they are Turks like Turks of Turkey. They believe they have close bonds but they are Uzbeks.

[El Greco]

Do you know about how O'zbekistan influenced Greece?

In my last trip to U-stan i heard a name of a town which franclly i dont remember now, but the name had something... and yes i recognised the name of a famous greek politician :D His name's history comes from this place,from yr country!
Yes i know turkish people origin comes from central asia somewhere in nowdays T-stan and K-stan.Speaking with some uzbek people i don't think they gave me the idea that believe they are Turks like Turks of Turkey. They believe they have close bonds but they are Uzbeks.

Besides food in U-stan had many things in common with greek and it was absolutely delicious:)
Weather in summer is sooo hot! Just like greece.

[El Greco]

I like many things about Uzbek people. One of them is their name Uz-bek FREE MEN!:)

[InnamoratoPazzo]

hi el Greco, if not a secret, from which city are you from?

and what is the weather like over there? is it snowy?

and when, in which month, people usually start swimming in the sea in Greece?

[Temur]

i have been in Grecee twice and have seen thessaloniki,alexandrapoli,komotini,athens.

[El Greco]

hi el Greco, if not a secret, from which city are you from?

and what is the weather like over there? is it snowy?

and when, in which month, people usually start swimming in the sea in Greece?

Hi! i'm from Creta island.Weather in Creta is hot in summer , mild rainy winters. Climate is very hygiene very nice. The bad thing about Creta is strong winds especially in summer(hot south winds) and cold north during winter.
Somebody can start swimming during April but sea is still cold.:) We usually start from May untill late September.

rwt the map of Greece and map of Creta

[El Greco]

i have been in Grecee twice and have seen thessaloniki,alexandrapoli,komotini,athens.

Did you come as a tourist or invited by somebody? Did you like our country?

[Kolobok]

Four years ago I went to Athens for a short holiday,loved the food...well in fact anything is good after english food. Anyways,I thought the islands were breathtaking,however,people were a bit rude.
The best part, a taxi driver that took me from the airport to the hotel apparently was from Kokand, he lived 2 streets down from where I used to live as a kid, he left Uzbekistan in 1962. Small world?

[El Greco]

Four years ago I went to Athens for a short holiday,loved the food...well in fact anything is good after english food. Anyways,I thought the islands were breathtaking,however,people were a bit rude.
The best part, a taxi driver that took me from the airport to the hotel apparently was from Kokand, he lived 2 streets down from where I used to live as a kid, he left Uzbekistan in 1962. Small world?

Haha! World is small indeed my friend:D

[El Greco]

http://www.magichorus.net/ History of ancient Cretan civilazitation and disc of Phaistus.

Some fotos of ancient cretan palace of Knossos.
Some say that the disc of Phaistus (still unrevealed mystery of its meaning) was an ancient map or something like modern global geographical spere we use in schools. Notice the second picture and u will understand!
Fresco is from archeological site of Knossos, the capital of cretan civilization, and represents a Prince and women of the honours.

[Samimiy]

They ruled very succesfully with the spirit of equality and justice of greek coultoure.They had been a relief for the people's of the area if somebody consider how hard their life was under the Persian domination.

Mana shu joyi sal kulguli chiqibdimi? :?

But seriously, modern Greeks have as much in common with ancient Greeks as modern American fraternities (who call themselvels Greek) do. I don't know if you know what I am talking about, but if you've spent time in the US, you should. Modern Greeks are lucky to have all the cultural treasures left by the ancient Greeks, and are reaping the rewards today.

[El Greco]

http://www.magichorus.net/ History of ancient Cretan civilazitation and disc of Phaistus.

Some fotos of ancient cretan palace of Knossos and Phaistus
Some say that the disc of Phaistus (still unrevealed mystery of its meaning) was an ancient map or something like modern global geographical spere we use in schools. Notice the second picture and u will understad!
Fresco is from archeological site of Knossos, the capital of cretan civilization, and represents a Prince and women of the honours.

Another fotos of Knossos and Phaistus antiques. Also the head of bull holy animal for ancient cretans

[El Greco]

Mana shu joyi sal kulguli chiqibdimi? :?

But seriously, modern Greeks have as much in common with ancient Greeks as modern American fraternities (who call themselvels Greek) do. I don't know if you know what I am talking about, but if you've spent time in the US, you should. Modern Greeks are lucky to have all the cultural treasures left by the ancient Greeks, and are reaping the rewards today.

Thanks for yr post,but i don't agree with u. Modern greeks have many things in common with ancient ancestors. language,ethics,believes and many more which is a long talk(and ofcourse bloodline). On the other hand some bond to ancient are lost due to modern way of living.
I'm not sure of what u mean by "fraternities".
Talking about rewards,do u know any country which doesn't use its ancient treasures to obtain touristic bussiness prosperity? I don't know any.

[El Greco]

http://www.uzland.info/text003.htm

[El Greco]

Central Asia--from earliest times to the present

Bukhara and Samarkand, the Khyber Pass and the Pamir mountains, Sinkiang and the Gobi desert, the Amu Darya and the Syr Darya--these evocative place-names bring to the mind's eye the vast geographical and cultural region in the heart of Asia that has long been a source of fascination for people in other parts of the world, especially in the West. Many works of ancient and modern literature testify to the influence and achievements of central Asian civilizations. The Cimmerians appear in Homer's Odyssey, and the Greek historian Herodotus described the way of life of the Scythians in the fifth century B.C. Since then travellers and writers from Marco Polo to Rudyard Kipling and Dino Buzzati (The Tartar Steppe) have portrayed this region where fantasy and reality are never far apart, and poets such as Hafiz and Omar Khayyam have brought it to life in verses of lyrical splendour. BNET

[nemets]

my relative in Uzbekistan is numismatist and he used to sponsor local archaeologists. These coins were found by his archaeologists in Uzbekistan:

http://photofile.name/photo/nemets/357852/large/6795179.jpg

[El Greco]

my relative in Uzbekistan is numismatist and he used to sponsor local archaeologists. These coins were found by his archaeologists in Uzbekistan:

http://photofile.name/photo/nemets/357852/large/6795179.jpg

Thanks for yr post!!! It is great. One of the head represent Alexander the great. I apreciate yr help to the topic of this thread:)

[Demir Kağan]

By the way, Rotting Christ rocks!! :cool:

[El Greco]

4-drachma-coin of Antigonos I (319-301BC).
On the one side is the head of Alexander the Great, and on the other side the image of Antigonos I and the words King Antigonos printed in Greek characters

Anybody can notice the similarity in both coins as the head of Alexander is represented

http://www.cc.ece.ntua.gr/~conster/English/PageData/ancient_coins.htm

[El Greco]

By the way, Rotting Christ rocks!! :cool:

What does this has to do with the topic of the thread? And by the way...no offensive comments about Christ! Please!

[Samimiy]

Thanks for yr post,but i don't agree with u. Modern greeks have many things in common with ancient ancestors. language,ethics,believes and many more which is a long talk(and ofcourse bloodline). On the other hand some bond to ancient are lost due to modern way of living.
I'm not sure of what u mean by "fraternities".
Talking about rewards,do u know any country which doesn't use its ancient treasures to obtain touristic bussiness prosperity? I don't know any.

Biggest differences between modern and ancient Greeks:
-Modern greeks are Christian and have been for a very long time, whereas ancient greeks had a very different system of ethics, morals and and life principles.
-Modern greeks are more nationalistic, united under a single state (with the exception of Cyprus). Ancient greeks' identities were shaped by their city-states, which were much more independent, and competed with one another. While they were united under the Hellenistic idea at different times, these times came relatively late and didn't last very long.
-Most importantly, ancient greeks made enormous scientific and cultural contributions to world history. Modern greeks don't even come close. That has something to do with culture, no?

As far as profiting from the ancient greek culture, there's nothing wrong with that. I never said it was wrong. I just said that modern greeks are marketing making money off the image and artefacts of the ancient greeks. They are just lucky.

[El Greco]

Biggest differences between modern and ancient Greeks:
-Modern greeks are Christian and have been for a very long time, whereas ancient greeks had a very different system of ethics, morals and and life principles.
-Modern greeks are more nationalistic, united under a single state (with the exception of Cyprus). Ancient greeks' identities were shaped by their city-states, which were much more independent, and competed with one another. While they were united under the Hellenistic idea at different times, these times came relatively late and didn't last very long.
-Most importantly, ancient greeks made enormous scientific and cultural contributions to world history. Modern greeks don't even come close. That has something to do with culture, no?

As far as profiting from the ancient greek culture, there's nothing wrong with that. I never said it was wrong. I just said that modern greeks are marketing making money off the image and artefacts of the ancient greeks. They are just lucky.

Yes we are Christians today, so what? Does this mean we are not real greeks? NO!
My answer to yr comment about scientific and coultoural contribution is simple: You do not know or haven't put yrself in to trouble to check!
Look at test Pap which saves milions of women arround globe from uterus cancer since 1950's!
What about greek scientists who work in other countries? They don't count? I tell u one thing without them NASA would had never launched misile to space, check my words!
Do u know I.T.E laboratory? Famous worldwide for various projects from lazer technology to robot or bio-industry.Instruments made of ITE had been sent to Mars in 2001.
NASA's project Mars odyssey 2001 music composed by Vangeli a greek composer!
some of the modern greek acomplishments

[El Greco]

Biggest differences between modern and ancient Greeks:
-Modern greeks are Christian and have been for a very long time, whereas ancient greeks had a very different system of ethics, morals and and life principles.
-Modern greeks are more nationalistic, united under a single state (with the exception of Cyprus). Ancient greeks' identities were shaped by their city-states, which were much more independent, and competed with one another. While they were united under the Hellenistic idea at different times, these times came relatively late and didn't last very long.
-Most importantly, ancient greeks made enormous scientific and cultural contributions to world history. Modern greeks don't even come close. That has something to do with culture, no?

As far as profiting from the ancient greek culture, there's nothing wrong with that. I never said it was wrong. I just said that modern greeks are marketing making money off the image and artefacts of the ancient greeks. They are just lucky.

Talking about contribution u must remember that modern times for Greece start from 1821 year of the greek revolution against Otomans. Earlier than this age, greece lived in total issolation from other civilised countries ,education,scientific spirit or whatever we can say coultoure.

[nemets]

El Greco, do you know wether the japan word "Kimono" has a greek origin?
It was told in one of my favourite movies "Big fat greek wedding party" . :)
Just kidding.
By the way, NASA couldn't launch their projects without german scientists including Von Braun, russian founder Tsiolkovsky and egyptian archeologist (forget the name) who had developed all interplanetary missions. Could you please tell something about greek space explorers?

[El Greco]

Greece's dark age: 1453-1821

[El Greco]

El Greco, do you know wether the japan word "Kimono" has a greek origin?
It was told in one of my favourite movies "Big fat greek wedding party" . :)
Just kidding.
By the way, NASA couldn't launch their projects without german scientists including Von Braun, russian founder Tsiolkovsky and egyptian archeologist (forget the name) who had developed all interplanetary missions. Could you please tell something about greek space explorers?

A greek scientist(which im affraid i don't remember his name now) had developed the metal alloy of the misile.Something like 'thermal shield", without it no missile would had escaped or re-enter atmosphere!
Kimono has nothing to do with Greece i ensure u!:D

[Samimiy]

Yes we are Christians today, so what? Does this mean we are not real greeks? NO!
My answer to yr comment about scientific and coultoural contribution is simple: You do not know or haven't put yrself in to trouble to check!
Look at test Pap which saves milions of women arround globe from uterus cancer since 1950's!
What about greek scientists who work in other countries? They don't count? I tell u one thing without them NASA would had never launched misile to space, check my words!
Do u know I.T.E laboratory? Famous worldwide for various projects from lazer technology to robot or bio-industry.Instruments made of ITE had been sent to Mars in 2001.
NASA's project Mars odyssey 2001 music composed by Vangeli a greek composer!
some of the modern greek acomplishments

Sorry to have hurt your national pride. But both you and I know that modern greek scientists, (whose contributions may be considerable), as productive as they may be, cannot compare to the giants of Ancient Greece. Every schoolchild know Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Psythagoras, Archymedes, Homer, Hesiod, and many others. These are the people who are considered fathers of many branches of science and culture. But who can name even a few modern greek scientists or artists? And no, George Michael doesn't count. Modern greek scientists may be making significant advances, and a few may even be working abroad (what a triumph!). But Iam talking about people who've become household names, I am talking about Nobel laureates.

Being Christian does not mean you are not Greek. It does mean being Christian makes you very different from the ancient greeks. There are fundamental differences between the two ideologies, which are reflected on the lifestyles, attitudes and behaviors. Simple example: ancient greeks placed very high emphasis on the human body. They thought that gods were shaped like men, and having good, athletic bodies made them look like gods. The implication being that the ancient greeks were very athletic and fit people. Can this be said about modern greeks?

[El Greco]

Sorry to have hurt your national pride. But both you and I know that modern greek scientists, (whose contributions may be considerable), as productive as they may be, cannot compare to the giants of Ancient Greece. Every schoolchild know Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Psythagoras, Archymedes, Homer, Hesiod, and many others. These are the people who are considered fathers of many branches of science and culture. But who can name even a few modern greek scientists or artists? And no, George Michael doesn't count. Modern greek scientists may be making significant advances, and a few may even be working abroad (what a triumph!). But Iam talking about people who've become household names, I am talking about Nobel laureates.

Being Christian does not mean you are not Greek. It does mean being Christian makes you very different from the ancient greeks. There are fundamental differences between the two ideologies, which are reflected on the lifestyles, attitudes and behaviors. Simple example: ancient greeks placed very high emphasis on the human body. They thought that gods were shaped like men, and having good, athletic bodies made them look like gods. The implication being that the ancient greeks were very athletic and fit people. Can this be said about modern greeks?

Dear! I don't really know where to start:)
First of all, u haven't hurt my national pride.We are talking here! This is good cause we share opinions and who knows maybe u or me learn something we didn't know before.
U r right that those figures like Pythagoras or Heraclitus or Archymedes were giants and basicly they established whole areas of science. Don't forget that in those times knowledge had been less than today. Today many nations contribute to science knowledge and put their tiny stone. Nobody can say that in the last 50 years a country or a person have created a new science.
Neither USA. Science is in its mature age and goes on with the help of all countries. So, it is somehow unfair to say that Greece has started nothing new in science or haven't discovered a new area of knowedge.
Nobel prizes are not in my opinion the standard to say "hey this country has many scientists or many artists with Nobel prize it's so nice bravo!!" G.Papanikolaou the greatest human or doctor -say as u like-of 20th century had received no Nobel prize! In fact he died poor!
Let me ask u something. Are u a Christian? I would like to know to go further in a next post.

[El Greco]

Sorry to have hurt your national pride. But both you and I know that modern greek scientists, (whose contributions may be considerable), as productive as they may be, cannot compare to the giants of Ancient Greece. Every schoolchild know Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Psythagoras, Archymedes, Homer, Hesiod, and many others. These are the people who are considered fathers of many branches of science and culture. But who can name even a few modern greek scientists or artists? And no, George Michael doesn't count. Modern greek scientists may be making significant advances, and a few may even be working abroad (what a triumph!). But Iam talking about people who've become household names, I am talking about Nobel laureates.

Being Christian does not mean you are not Greek. It does mean being Christian makes you very different from the ancient greeks. There are fundamental differences between the two ideologies, which are reflected on the lifestyles, attitudes and behaviors. Simple example: ancient greeks placed very high emphasis on the human body. They thought that gods were shaped like men, and having good, athletic bodies made them look like gods. The implication being that the ancient greeks were very athletic and fit people. Can this be said about modern greeks?

I assume that u r not Cristian or u haven't studied ancient greek philosophy. Christianity and greek philosophy share a lot! The fundamental beliefs of Christian religion had been also for the ancient greek philosophers like Socrates or Platon or Aristoteles. Socrates was teaching in public there is ONE true God,that there is immortal soul and after death linked to the 'Apan"(the source of Everything) the spirit of Creator. In fact they look alike so much in some points,that this made some modern researchers of Jesus, to claim He had been instracted to Greek Thought before starting Ηis preach(during the unknown period of His life)
About body: Body is fundamental for Greek Thought as well as in Christian religion as the base the "temple" of the soul. So it is important to behave well to the body but minor in importance compare to soul.

[El Greco]

Sorry to have hurt your national pride. But both you and I know that modern greek scientists, (whose contributions may be considerable), as productive as they may be, cannot compare to the giants of Ancient Greece. Every schoolchild know Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Psythagoras, Archymedes, Homer, Hesiod, and many others. These are the people who are considered fathers of many branches of science and culture. But who can name even a few modern greek scientists or artists? And no, George Michael doesn't count. Modern greek scientists may be making significant advances, and a few may even be working abroad (what a triumph!). But Iam talking about people who've become household names, I am talking about Nobel laureates.

Being Christian does not mean you are not Greek. It does mean being Christian makes you very different from the ancient greeks. There are fundamental differences between the two ideologies, which are reflected on the lifestyles, attitudes and behaviors. Simple example: ancient greeks placed very high emphasis on the human body. They thought that gods were shaped like men, and having good, athletic bodies made them look like gods. The implication being that the ancient greeks were very athletic and fit people. Can this be said about modern greeks?

"The implication being that the ancient greeks were very athletic and fit people. Can this be said about modern greeks?[/quote]"
I don't suppose u call us "meat-balls"?!!! do u?:)

[El Greco]

Where is Pazzo?!

[InnamoratoPazzo]

[quote]
Biggest differences between modern and ancient Greeks:
-Modern greeks are Christian and have been for a very long time, whereas ancient greeks had a very different system of ethics, morals and and life principles.
-Modern greeks are more nationalistic, united under a single state (with the exception of Cyprus). Ancient greeks' identities were shaped by their city-states, which were much more independent, and competed with one another. While they were united under the Hellenistic idea at different times, these times came relatively late and didn't last very long.

I can't understand your point. You r either naive or not educated.
There are two thousands years of history between ancient and modern greeks. and its obvious that they changed like everybody does.
can you say that you and your ancestors 2000 years back talk the same language and share the same religion? damn no!

Moreover, I wonder how can one compare modern ethics, morals, and life principles with those existed 2000 years ago? do you mean modern greeks have to go back to those principles in order to be "more greek"?




-Most importantly, ancient greeks made enormous scientific and cultural contributions to world history. Modern greeks don't even come close. That has something to do with culture, no?

I've heard this argument in one badtaste comedy. I suppose you watched it too:D
To continue your thought: ancient iranians had a lot of poets and scientists, but modern iranians dont, so modern iranians arent iranians. During Soviet times russians had immense scientific potential, which now they dont have, so russians arent russians.
Uzbeks had brilliant poets and scientists in medieval times, but now they dont, so we are not we...

God save us from such people!

To be serious:
As you know from history every culture has the times when it flourishes and the time of decline, so it's natural. No civilaztion can produce geniuses all the time. If we take Greece, there is no civilization that produced so many scientists, poets, warlords etc, etc as Ancient Greece. And it's incorrect to compare modern Greek science with Ancient. Moreover you cant compare any modern countrry's science and culture to that of Ancient Greece, simply because they dont stand the comparison. Remember those times are called Golden Age!
But history is circular Im sure the time of Greek glory will come back, as well as the times of Iranian, Uzbek, Russian etc. etc. glory.


As far as profiting from the ancient greek culture, there's nothing wrong with that. I never said it was wrong. I just said that modern greeks are marketing making money off the image and artefacts of the ancient greeks. They are just lucky.
are you jealous, or it just seems like?
I only can say thanks to greeks for saving so much historical sights and artefacts, so that everybody can enjoy them today!

[Tabriz_Han]

El_Greco
Alexander indeed destroyed Persepolis,thing that was not his best highlight


Why not? he was a warrior king, destroying Persepolis was definately one of his highlights as are his other victories.



El_Greco
He is still alive in legends of turkish triebs of the region.


He didn't have an effect on Turks so generally they are indifferent, he is known as a great warrior but he doesn't have any deep meaning.



El_Greco
There were many great warlords from area of central Asia. Gengis qhan or Amir Timur for example but history named no one of them "Great".



But Turkic history does have one named "Magnificent" :)



El_Greco
Yes i know turkish people origin comes from central asia somewhere in nowdays T-stan and K-stan.Speaking with some uzbek people i don't think they gave me the idea that believe they are Turks like Turks of Turkey.

There was no "O'zbekistan" in that period, however from the land than is now O'zbekistan there is,

Saruhan Beylik - This beylik was founded by Khwarzemshah Turks who were fleeing the Mongols, they conquered Byzantine lands in Manisa.

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9065814/Saruhan-Dynasty

Beğdili Tьrkmenleri - This clan mainly migrated from Khwarezm lands

http://www.turkmensitesi.com/beydili.html

Deveciler - These Turks were sent by the Khiva Khaganate to Ottoman lands

Sheyh Edebali - The guy who created the Ottoman masterplan, he was the spiritual guide, teacher and advisor of Osman Ghazi, his daughter married Osman Ghazi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheik_Edebali

http://books.google.com/books?id=-0j8w-bL9yYC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=sheikh+edebali&source=web&ots=MUDwhVX9_v&sig=3nZXBOk2ebNkHnVq_B00e09vVJM

Emir Sultan - He was an infuential figure in the early years of the Ottomans and married Bayezids wife.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emir_Sultan_Mosque

Ali Kuscu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Ku%C5%9F%C3%A7u

The Yesevi-Bektashi and Naqshibandi orders and tekkes across the Balkans were originally Alperens and holy men from around the Ozbeksitan region.

Even in the war at Izmir the man who entered first was Şerafettin Bey from Bukhara.

etc etc

O'zbekistans history has contributed alot to Hellen people over the past millenia.



Pazzo
If we take Greece, there is no civilization that produced so many scientists, poets, warlords etc, etc as Ancient Greece.

There are many, don't be so bigotted.

Plus, the modern age has outdone every civillisation of the past, the development of the last century has been greater than any other in history.




And it's incorrect to compare modern Greek science with Ancient. Moreover you cant compare any modern countrry's science and culture to that of Ancient Greece, simply because they dont stand the comparison. Remember those times are called Golden Age!

Your talking about an era when there was none of todays modern technology as if you miss it, as much as we can respect our histories lets be realistic, life as an ordinary person was pretty crappy back then, unless you was a king or part of the hierarchy life wasn't too pretty.


But history is circular Im sure the time of Greek glory will come back, as well as the times of Iranian, Uzbek, Russian etc. etc. glory.

Its not going to come back with wishfull thinking or believing in myths like, we were once great so if we wait around we'll be great again...

[InnamoratoPazzo]

I assume that u r not Cristian or u haven't studied ancient greek philosophy. Christianity and greek philosophy share a lot!

Indeed, Samimiy, you should make some research on medieval Christian theology and read books by medieval scholastics (Thomas Aquinas or Saint Anselm):D

Whole scholasticism is based on greek philosophy!:D

[Tabriz_Han]

You are joking right?

Plato and Aristotle were taught but so was Ibn Rushd, Ibn Sina, Tarkhan Uzlug Farabi, so according to your logic the basis of scholasticism was actually Islamic philosophy :rolleyes:

[Tabriz_Han]

Tell me what the main sections of the Summa of Aquinus are :)
Why did you delete your post huh

[InnamoratoPazzo]

are u kidding?
my friend, Ive passed all my exams long-long time ago, and there s no need to test me!

peace

[InnamoratoPazzo]

I agree ibn Rushd and other eastern pholosophers influenced a lot on scholasticism, but to say that scholasticism is based totally on Islamic philosophy is nonsense.

[Tabriz_Han]

I was being sarcastic, you might have misunderstood what I wrote.

I wrote, if your only counting Plato and Aristotle as being the main components of the Summa, using the same logic one could ignore everyone else and claim the Summa is composed of Ibn Rushd, Ibn Gazali, Ibn Sina, Farabi...

The Summa used many referrences, the most influential and prominant one obviously being the Bible.

[InnamoratoPazzo]

I was being sarcastic, you might have misunderstood what I wrote.

I wrote, if your only counting Plato and Aristotle as being the main components of the Summa, using the same logic one could ignore everyone else and claim the Summa is composed of Ibn Rushd, Ibn Gazali, Ibn Sina, Farabi...

The Summa used many referrences, the most influential and prominant one obviously being the Bible.
forgive my irony too, my friend, you are right!
Im not denying Islamic influence on western philosophy. both philosophies influenced each other alot, and only fools can say that one of them is superior.
AND (!!!) Europe have to thank Muslim world for saving and enriching the works of Greek philosophers.

peace

ps

I deleted my post coz I thought it was direspectful to you :-)

and dont worry I know the main ideas described in Summa.

[Temur]

Did you come as a tourist or invited by somebody? Did you like our country?

Yes i was tourist :D i did a little Balkan trip, Macedonia,Albania,Grecee i could visit. Most beautiful and smart one was Grecee. And most sympatic one was Macedonia i like skopje also.

[Uzbekxonim]

"ps. how come Greek is on Uzbek forum? dating an Uzbek girl?"

That's the nice thing about internet! You can join greek forums too.
Can you express more detailed why u don't like greek people?
No i don't date an Uzbek girl:)[/quote]

i am afraid that i will be judging a nation by its several represantatives, so disregard my previous msg. Greeks as a nation is old and achieved much during previous centuries, for that i respect it. plus Alexander the Great married Roxana, seems like Greeks like Central Asian girls. ;)
ps. i am going to Greece in a week :)

[El Greco]

[quote=Samimiy;915248]

I can't understand your point. You r either naive or not educated.
There are two thousands years of history between ancient and modern greeks. and its obvious that they changed like everybody does.
can you say that you and your ancestors 2000 years back talk the same language and share the same religion? damn no!

Moreover, I wonder how can one compare modern ethics, morals, and life principles with those existed 2000 years ago? do you mean modern greeks have to go back to those principles in order to be "more greek"?



I've heard this argument in one badtaste comedy. I suppose you watched it too:D
To continue your thought: ancient iranians had a lot of poets and scientists, but modern iranians dont, so modern iranians arent iranians. During Soviet times russians had immense scientific potential, which now they dont have, so russians arent russians.
Uzbeks had brilliant poets and scientists in medieval times, but now they dont, so we are not we...

God save us from such people!

To be serious:
As you know from history every culture has the times when it flourishes and the time of decline, so it's natural. No civilaztion can produce geniuses all the time. If we take Greece, there is no civilization that produced so many scientists, poets, warlords etc, etc as Ancient Greece. And it's incorrect to compare modern Greek science with Ancient. Moreover you cant compare any modern countrry's science and culture to that of Ancient Greece, simply because they dont stand the comparison. Remember those times are called Golden Age!
But history is circular Im sure the time of Greek glory will come back, as well as the times of Iranian, Uzbek, Russian etc. etc. glory.


are you jealous, or it just seems like?
I only can say thanks to greeks for saving so much historical sights and artefacts, so that everybody can enjoy them today!

Thanks for yr post, u couln't cover me more:)

[El Greco]

Why not? he was a warrior king, destroying Persepolis was definately one of his highlights as are his other victories.



He didn't have an effect on Turks so generally they are indifferent, he is known as a great warrior but he doesn't have any deep meaning.



But Turkic history does have one named "Magnificent" :)




There was no "O'zbekistan" in that period, however from the land than is now O'zbekistan there is,

Saruhan Beylik - This beylik was founded by Khwarzemshah Turks who were fleeing the Mongols, they conquered Byzantine lands in Manisa.

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9065814/Saruhan-Dynasty

Beğdili Tьrkmenleri - This clan mainly migrated from Khwarezm lands

http://www.turkmensitesi.com/beydili.html

Deveciler - These Turks were sent by the Khiva Khaganate to Ottoman lands

Sheyh Edebali - The guy who created the Ottoman masterplan, he was the spiritual guide, teacher and advisor of Osman Ghazi, his daughter married Osman Ghazi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheik_Edebali

http://books.google.com/books?id=-0j8w-bL9yYC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=sheikh+edebali&source=web&ots=MUDwhVX9_v&sig=3nZXBOk2ebNkHnVq_B00e09vVJM

Emir Sultan - He was an infuential figure in the early years of the Ottomans and married Bayezids wife.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emir_Sultan_Mosque

Ali Kuscu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Ku%C5%9F%C3%A7u

The Yesevi-Bektashi and Naqshibandi orders and tekkes across the Balkans were originally Alperens and holy men from around the Ozbeksitan region.

Even in the war at Izmir the man who entered first was Şerafettin Bey from Bukhara.

etc etc

O'zbekistans history has contributed alot to Hellen people over the past millenia.




There are many, don't be so bigotted.

Plus, the modern age has outdone every civillisation of the past, the development of the last century has been greater than any other in history.





Your talking about an era when there was none of todays modern technology as if you miss it, as much as we can respect our histories lets be realistic, life as an ordinary person was pretty crappy back then, unless you was a king or part of the hierarchy life wasn't too pretty.



Its not going to come back with wishfull thinking or believing in myths like, we were once great so if we wait around we'll be great again...

If u consider Alexander as just a warlord then it is ok,but i'm affraid if u do this u r beeing unjustice to Alexander and his role in world history.

Turcik not global history:) In Greek history we name a dozen of other "great"

Listen my friend, i know Turks of Turkey and i certainly know Uzbeks too.In my opinion they are very diferent only language has remain as a bond between 'em.Uzbek is a free independent nation and certainly has its own coultoural contribution to the world which doesn't have to be messed with Turkish of nowadays Turkey.Pan-Turcism as an idea is not in my concerns.


I speak about contribution of Otomans to the modern greek coultoure in a previous post.

The development of modern times! Oh well! When am i going to stop hearing this crupp pardon my language:rolleyes:. Look there is developmen of science indeed and technology but there stops the development. If u concider as development science without humanism, then it stops to be development and begans tobe an obsession,a tyrany.We live in 2008 and be hold our achivements:
Kids dying in Africa by famine while satellites are send to space to focus on every's peoples land and home:rolleyes:
Wars taking place all over the world and we watch them in our sofa drinking beers and eating pop corn:rolleyes:
Wars in the near future(this very moment that we speak) and mass evacuations of nations from their motherlandsare beeing sceduled:rolleyes:
Rich people become more rich and poors more poors take a look at the statistics:rolleyes:
Environment is rapidly changing but we give a dumn about it:rolleyes:

I could speak till tomorrow,the general idea has given already.Everybody take a look at yr inner world and ask 'DO WE HAVE A DEVELPMENT TODAY?"

With respect

[El Greco]

"

That's the nice thing about internet! You can join greek forums too.
Can you express more detailed why u don't like greek people?
No i don't date an Uzbek girl:)

i am afraid that i will be judging a nation by its several represantatives, so disregard my previous msg. Greeks as a nation is old and achieved much during previous centuries, for that i respect it. plus Alexander the Great married Roxana, seems like Greeks like Central Asian girls. ;)
ps. i am going to Greece in a week :)[/quote]

Welcome to my country:). I'm not claiming any role of representative of
Greek nation or Greek Thought,nobody can, neither Mr President:D.
Central Asian girls hm i can speak about Uzbek girls which i saw. They are pretty nice:)

[Qarama]

...
Listen my friend, i know Turks of Turkey and i certainly know Uzbeks too.In my opinion they are very diferent only language has remain as a bond between 'em.Uzbek is a free independent nation and certainly has its own coultoural contribution to the world which doesn't have to be messed with Turkish of nowadays Turkey....

http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=25833

:)

[El Greco]

http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=25833

:)


theese are traditions we have in Greece too it's not Turkish copyright:)It doesn't proove national homiogeny

[El Greco]

Does anybody knows how to make free space in my total attachments space?

[Tabriz_Han]

El_Greco
Turcik not global history:) In Greek history we name a dozen of other "great"



In global history, Suleyman the Magnificent is known as Suleyman the Magnificent.

Ulugh Beg is known as Ulugh Beg, Ulugh means Great.

El_Greco, where does the Turkish language, identity, history and culture derive from, using your reasoning we can argue Pontics are just speaking a Greek language but are totally different people today...




El_Greco
Rich people become more rich and poors more poors take a look at the statistics


Its a development from the era of "rulers" and "peasents", at least today the peasents have some rights and can join the ranks of the rulers.

We often have a romanticised view of history, we forget that many of todays comforts didn't exist, plagues wiped out half the population of Europe, nobody washed, hygiene was awfull, no electric, no communications, mad tyrants and bloodthirsty dictators.

[El Greco]

In global history, Suleyman the Magnificent is known as Suleyman the Magnificent.

Ulugh Beg is known as Ulugh Beg, Ulugh means Great.

El_Greco, where does the Turkish language, identity, history and culture derive from, using your reasoning we can argue Pontics are just speaking a Greek language but are totally different people today...




Its a development from the era of "rulers" and "peasents", at least today the peasents have some rights and can join the ranks of the rulers.

We often have a romanticised view of history, we forget that many of todays comforts didn't exist, plagues wiped out half the population of Europe, nobody washed, hygiene was awfull, no electric, no communications, mad tyrants and bloodthirsty dictators.

I went to Ulugh Beg's madrasa by the way, in Samarkand.

I don't disagree with u we have comforts that ancients didn't, this is no real development cause after 2000 years we should learn at least to live in piece/justice and accept the diference in this world. Instead we r doing anything that comes from our hands to destroy our economies,societies,countries and entire world! It's no development when we cut out of science, God,human love,respect.
The bottom of line is that there is no real development of Mankind without spiritual reborn,love to the fellow person.
Jesus Christ said: "Anfaithfull! If u believed in Me just a little, I would have revealed the Symban(Universe) for u". After 2000 years i don't believe that Mankind has done the expected progress afterall.

[El Greco]

http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=25833

:)


[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Uzbeks&action=edit&section=3)] History

In ancient times, various Altaic-speaking tribes began to move to the area between the Amu Darya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amu_Darya) (Oxus in Greek) and Syr Darya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syr_Darya) (Jaxartes in Greek) rivers. Some of these early tribes included the Huns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns) who eventually occupied this region around the 3rd century BC and continued their conquests further south and west.
What drastically changed the demographics of Central Asia was the invasion of the Mongols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongols) led by Genghis Khan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan) in the 13th century. Numerous native populations were wiped out by the Mongols and a process of population replacement began in earnest. During this period numerous Turkic tribes began to migrate and ultimately replace many of the Iranian peoples who were largely killed, absorbed by larger Turco-Mongolian groups[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)], and/or pushed further south and Central Asia came to be known as Turkestan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkestan). Much of modern Uzbekistan took shape during the reign of Tamerlane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamerlane), a prominent Turco-Mongolian conqueror who reigned over a vast empire from his capital at Samarkand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samarkand). Later, between the 15th and 16th centuries, various nomadic tribes arrived from the steppes including the Kipchaks, Naymans, Kanglis, Kungrats, Manġits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manghit) and others and these tribes were led by Muhammad Shaybani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Shaybani) who was the Khan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan) of the Uzbeks. This period marked the beginnings of the modern Uzbek nationality and formation of an Uzbek state in what is today Uzbekistan, as these tribes were the first to use the name 'Uzbek'. This early Uzbek state challenged the Safavids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavids) and Mughals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughals), for control over Khorasan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khorasan) (modern Afghanistan).
Until 1924, the bulk of the settled Turkic population of Russian Turkestan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Turkestan), who were of very heterogeneous descent, were known as Sarts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sart) by the colonial authorities, and only those groups speaking Kipchak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kipchak) dialects who had arrived in the region with Muhammad Shaybani Khan were called 'Uzbeks'. In 1924, when the new Uzbek SSR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbek_SSR) was created, the Soviets abolished the term 'Sart' and decreed that all settled Turkic speakers would henceforth be known as Uzbeks. Uzbekistan, under Russian and then later Soviet administration, became multi-ethnic as populations from throughout the former Soviet Union moved (or were exiled) to Central Asia. Now, people of Uzbek nationality can be found with different characteristics, from light skinned to dark toned skin colors, from blue eyes to black eyes, from blonds to brunettes.

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Uzbeks&action=edit&section=4)] Language

The Uzbek language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbek_language) is an Altaic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic) language and is part of Karluk group of Turkic languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_languages). Modern Uzbek bears the closest resemblance to Uyghur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_language), slightly less so to Kazakh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_language), Turkmen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmen_language) and, more distantly, to Turkish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_language). Modern Uzbek is written in wide variety of scripts including Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic), Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin), and Cyrillic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic). After the independence of Uzbekistan from the former Soviet Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union), the government decided to replace the Cyrillic script with a modified Latin alphabet, specifically for Turkic languages.
Modern Uzbek has also absorbed a considerable vocabulary and - to a much lesser degree - certain grammatical elements from non-Turk languages, most of all from Persian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language) as well as Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic) and Russian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language) among others.


[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Uzbeks&action=edit&section=6)] Genetic origins

The modern Uzbek population represents varying degrees of diversity derived from the high traffic invasion routes through Central Asia. Once populated by Iranian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples) tribes and other Indo-European peoples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_people), Central Asia experienced numerous invasions emanating out of Mongolia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolia) that would drastically impact the region. According to recent Genetic genealogy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_genealogy) testing from a University of Chicago study, the Uzbeks cluster somewhere between the Mongols and the Iranian peoples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples):
From the 3d century B.C., Central Asia experienced nomadic expansions of Altaic-speaking East Asian-looking people, and their incursions continued for hundreds of years, beginning with the Hsiung-Nu (who may be ancestors of the Huns), in 300 B.C., and followed by the Turks, in the 1st millennium A.D., and the Mongol expansions of the 13th century. High levels of haplogroup 10 and its derivative, haplogroup 36, are found in most of the Altaic-speaking populations and are a good indicator of the genetic impact of these nomadic groups. The expanding waves of Altaic-speaking nomads involved not only eastern Central Asia, where their genetic contribution is strong, as is shown in figure 7d but also regions farther west, like Iran, Iraq, Anatolia, and the Caucasus, as well as Europe, which was reached by both the Huns and the Mongols. In these western regions, however, the genetic contribution is low or undetectable (Wells et al. 2001), even though the power of these invaders was sometimes strong enough to impose a language replacement, as in Turkey and Azerbaijan (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). The difference could be due to the population density of the different geographical areas. Eastern regions of Central Asia must have had a low population density at the time, so an external contribution could have had a great genetic impact. In contrast, the western regions were more densely inhabited, and it is likely that the existing populations were more numerous than the conquering nomads, therefore leading to only a small genetic impact. Thus, the admixture estimate from northeast Asia is high in the east, but is barely detectable west of Uzbekistan. [5] (http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v71n3/023927/023927.html?erFrom=-6182819269366451666Guest)
The Uzbek population, according to this study, shows substantial Mongol admixture. The Uzbeks display a somewhat closer genetic relationship with Turkic-Mongols than with Iranic populations to the south and west.
Another study out of Uzbekistan corroborates this genetic evidence as to the origins of the modern Uzbeks and other regional Turk peoples:
These migrations are reflected in the DNA, too, and it is clear that despite the majority of modern Central Asians speaking Turk languages, they derive much of their genetic heritage from the conquering Mongol warriors of Genghis Khan. [6] (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1502189.stm)
The Turkic peoples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples) as a whole share common languages and many common cultural traits, but do not have common origins. The Uzbeks are descended to a large degree from Turk-Mongol invaders whose invasions span literally millennia from the first millennium CE with the early migrations of the Göktürks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6kt%C3%BCrks) to later invasions by the Uzbeks themselves during the early and mid period of the 2nd millennium. Throughout the centuries, these migrating Altaic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic) peoples began to outnumber the native Iranian peoples of Central Asia and appear to have assimilated the vast majority through intermarriage, while mainly the Tajiks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tajiks) survived albeit with some Turk intermingling as well. Thus, in the case of Uzbekistan and most other Central Asian states, it was not only a process of language replacement, such as what took place in Turkey and Azerbaijan, but also a mass migration and population replacement that helped to shape the modern Turk peoples of Uzbekistan and other Central Asian states.
Wikipedia

[El Greco]

Greece (Greek: Ελλάδα Elláda, IPA: [ɛˈlaða], or Ελλάς Ellás, [ɛˈlas]), officially the Hellenic Republic [Ελληνική Δημοκρατία (ɛliniˈkʲi ðimokraˈtia)],[3] is a country in Southeastern Europe, situated on the southern end of the Balkan Peninsula. It has borders with Albania, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and Bulgaria to the north, and Turkey to the east. The Aegean Sea lays to the east and south of mainland Greece, while the Ionian Sea lays to the west. Both parts of the Eastern Mediterranean basin feature a vast number of islands.

Greece lays at the juncture of Europe, Asia, and Africa. It is heir to the heritages of ancient Greece, the Roman and Byzantine Empire,[4] and nearly four centuries of Ottoman rule.[5] Greece has a particularly long and eventful history with a diverse cultural heritage that both shaped and has been shaped by cultures throughout the Middle East, Northern Africa, and Europe. It is regarded as the birthplace of democracy,[6] Western philosophy,[7] the Olympic Games, Western literature, political science, major scientific and mathematic principles, and Western drama[8] including both tragedy and comedy.

Today, Greece is a developed country, a member of the European Union since 1981,[9] a member of the Economic and Monetary Union of the European Union since 2001, NATO since 1952, the OECD since 1961,[10] the WEU since 1995, and ESA since 2005.[11] Athens is the capital; Thessaloniki, Patras, Heraklion, Volos and Larissa are some of the country's other major cities.

The southern shores of Greece's Aegean Sea viewed the emergence of one of the first advanced civilizations in Europe. Minoan and Mycenean civilizations, and later Greek city-states, emerged across the Greek peninsula but also on the shores of Black Sea, South Italy and Asia Minor, reaching great levels of prosperity that resulted in an unprecedented cultural boom, expressed in architecture, tragedy, drama, science and philosophy, and nurtured in Athens under a democratic environment. Athens and Sparta led the way in repelling the Persian Empire in a series of battles. Both were later overshadowed by Thebes and eventually Macedonia, with the latter under the guidance of Alexander the Great uniting and leading the Greek world to victory over the Persians, to presage the Hellenistic era, itself brought only partially to a close two centuries later with the establishment of Roman rule over Greek lands in 146 BC.

The subsequent mixture of Roman ,and Hellenic culture took form in the making of the Byzantine Empire in 330 AD around Constantinople (today Istanbul, Turkey), and remained a major cultural and military force for the next 1,123 years until its fall at the hands of Ottomans in 1453. On the eve of the Ottoman era the Greek intelligentsia migrated to Western Europe, playing a significant role in the Western European Renaissance through the transferring of works by Ancient Greeks to Western Europe. Nevertheless, the Ottoman millet system contributed to the ethnic cohesion of Orthodox Greeks by segregating the various peoples within the Ottoman Empire based on religion as the latter played an integral role in the formation of modern Greek identity.

On March 25th of 1821, the Greeks rebelled against the Ottoman empire. Through the Greek War of Independence, successfully fought against the Ottoman Empire from 1821 to 1829, the nascent Greek state was finally recognized under the London Protocol. In 1827, Ioannis Kapodistrias, a noble Greek from the Ionian Islands, was chosen as the first governor of the new Republic. However, following his assassination, the Great Powers soon installed a monarchy under Otto, of the Bavarian House of Wittelsbach. In 1843, an uprising forced the King to grant a constitution and a representative assembly. Due to his unimpaired authoritarian rule, he was eventually dethroned in 1863 and replaced by Prince Vilhelm (William) of Denmark, who took the name George I and brought with him the Ionian Islands as a coronation gift from Britain. In 1877, Charilaos Trikoupis, a dominant figure of the Greek political scene who is attributed with the significant improvement of the country's infrastructure, curbed the power of the monarchy to interfere in the assembly by issuing the rule of vote of confidence to any potential prime minister.
March 25, 1821: Germanos of Patras, blessing the Greek flag at Agia Lavra. Theodoros Vryzakis, 1865.
March 25, 1821: Germanos of Patras, blessing the Greek flag at Agia Lavra. Theodoros Vryzakis, 1865.
July 24, 1974: Konstantinos Karamanlis arrives in Athens on the French Presidential jet, courtesy of French President Valéry Giscard d'Estaing
July 24, 1974: Konstantinos Karamanlis arrives in Athens on the French Presidential jet, courtesy of French President Valéry Giscard d'Estaing

As a result of the Balkan Wars of 1912-13, Greece had successfully increased the extent of her territory and population, a challenging context both socially and economically. In the following years, the struggle between the new King Constantine I and his charismatic prime minister Eleftherios Venizelos over the country's foreign policy on the eve of World War I dominated the country's political order, and divided the country into two bitterly hostile factions (see National Schism).

In the aftermath of WW I, Greece fought against Turkish nationalists led by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk (Greco-Turkish War (1919-1922), with the traumatic conflict ending in a massive population exchange between the two countries under the Treaty of Lausanne. Instability and successive coup d'etats marked the following era, which was coloured by the massive task of incorporating 1.5 million Greek refugees from Asia Minor into Greek society.On 28 October 1940 Fascist Italy demanded the surrender of Greece, but the Greek dictator Ioannis Metaxas famously responded to the Italian ultimatum with the single word "OXI" ("No"). In the following Greco-Italian War, Greece repelled Italian forces into Albania, giving the Allies their first victory over Axis forces on land. The country would eventually fall to urgently dispatched German forces during the Battle of Greece, but the occupiers nevertheless met serious challenges from the Greek Resistance.

After liberation, Greece experienced a civil war between Royalist and Communist forces, which led to economic devastation and severe social tensions between its Rightists and large Communist Leftists[12] The next 20 years were characterized by a significant economic growth, also propelled in part by the Marshall Plan. In 1965, a period of political turbulence led to a coup d’etat on April 21, 1967 by the US-supported Regime of the Colonels. On November 1973 the Athens Polytechnic Uprising sent shock waves across the regime, and a counter-coup established Brigadier Dimitrios Ioannides as dictator. On July 20, 1974, as Turkey invaded the island of Cyprus, the regime collapsed.

Ex-Premier Constantine Karamanlis was invited back from Paris where he had lived in self-exile since 1963, marking the beginning of the Metapolitefsi era; a 1975 democratic republican constitution was activated and the monarchy abolished by a referendum held that same year. Meanwhile, Andreas Papandreou founded the Panhellenic Socialist Party, or PASOK, in response to Constantine Karamanlis' New Democracy party, and the two groupings have dominated Greek political affairs in the ensuing decades. Greece became the tenth member of the European Union on January 1, 1981 and ever since, the nation has experienced a remarkable and sustained economic growth. Widespread investments in industrial enterprises and heavy infrastructure, as well as funds from the European Union and growing revenues from tourism, shipping and a fast growing service sector have raised the country's standard of living to unprecedented levels. The country adopted the Euro in 2001, and successfully organised the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens

[El Greco]

Greece is a parliamentary republic.[13] The head of state is the President of the Republic, who is elected by the Parliament for a five-year term.[14] After the Constitutional amendment of 1986 the President's duties were curtailed to a significant extent, and they are now largely ceremonial.[15]

The current Constitution of Greece was drawn up and adopted by the Fifth Revisionary Parliament of the Hellenes and entered into force in 1975 after the fall of the military junta of 1967-1974. It has been revised twice since, in 1986 and in 2001. The Constitution, which consists of 120 articles, provides for a separation of powers into executive, legislative, and judicial branches, and grants extensive specific guarantees (further reinforced in 2001) of civil liberties and social rights.[16]

According to the Constitution, executive power is exercised by the President of the Republic and the Government;[17] after 1986, however, the role of the President in the executive branch is ceremonial.[15] The position of Prime Minister, Greece's head of government, belongs to the current leader of the political party that can obtain the confidence of a plurality in the Parliament. The President of the Republic formally appoints the Prime Minister and, on his recommendation, appoints and dismisses the other members of the Cabinet.[18] The Prime Minister exercises vast political power, and the amendment of 1986 further strengthened his position to the detriment of the President of the Republic.[19]

Legislative power is exercised by a 300-member unicameral Parliament.[20] Statutes passed by the Parliament are promulgated by the President of the Republic.[21] Parliamentary elections are held every four years, but the President of the Republic is obliged to dissolve the Parliament earlier on the proposal of the Cabinet, in view of dealing with a national issue of exceptional importance.[22] The President is also obliged to dissolve the Parliament earlier, if the opposition manages to pass a motion of no confidence.[23]

The Judiciary is independent of the executive and the legislature and comprises three Supreme Courts: the Court of Cassation (Άρειος Πάγος), the Council of State (Συμβούλιο της Επικρατείας) and the Court of Auditors (Ελεγκτικό Συνέδριο). The Judiciary system is also composed of civil courts, which judge civil and penal cases and administrative courts, which judge administrative cases, namely disputes between the citizens and the State.

Since the restoration of democracy the party system is dominated by the liberal-conservative New Democracy and the social-democratic Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK). Non-negligible parties include the Communist Party of Greece, the Coalition of the Radical Left and the Popular Orthodox Rally.

On March 7, 2004, Kostas Karamanlis, president of the New Democracy party and nephew of the late Constantine Karamanlis was elected as the new Prime Minister of Greece, thus marking his party's first electoral victory in nearly eleven years. Karamanlis took over government from Kostas Simitis of PASOK, who had been in office since January 1996, replacing the ailing Andreas Papandreou who died on June 23, 1996. Kostas Karamanlis won a second term on September 16, 2007, however his party acquired a slimmer majority in the Greek Parliament gaining only 152 out of 300 seats.

[El Greco]

Greece consists of a mountainous mainland jutting out into the sea at the southern end of the Balkans, the Peloponnesus peninsula (separated from the mainland by the canal of the Isthmus of Corinth), and numerous islands (around 2,000), including Crete, Euboea, Lesbos, Chios, the Dodecanese and the Cycladic groups of the Aegean Sea as well as the Ionian Sea islands. Greece has the tenth longest coastline in the world with 14,880 kilometres (9,246 mi); its land boundary is 1,160 kilometres (721 mi).

Four fifths of Greece consist of mountains or hills, making the country one of the most mountainous in Europe. Western Greece contains a number of lakes and wetlands and it is dominated by the Pindus mountain range. Pindus has a maximum elevation of 2,636 m (8,648 ft) and it is essentially a prolongation of the Dinaric Alps.

The range continues through the western Peloponnese, crosses the islands of Kythera and Antikythera and find its way into southwestern Aegean, in the island of Crete where it eventually ends. (the islands of the Aegean are peaks of underwater mountains that once constituted an extension of the mainland). Pindus is characterized by its high, steep peaks, often dissected by numerous canyons and a variety of other karstic landscapes. Most notably, the impressive Meteora formation consisting of high, steep boulders provides a breathtaking experience for the hundreds of thousands of tourists who visit the area each year. Special lifts transfer visitors to the scenic monasteries that lie on top of those rocks.
Meteora is situated in the Trikala prefecture. The Vikos-Aoos Gorge is yet another spectacular formation. The Vikos-Aoos Gorge is a popular hotspot for those fond of extreme sports. Mount Olympus is the highest mountain in the country, located in the southwestern Pieria prefecture, near Thessaloniki. Mytikas in the Olympus range has a height of 2,917 metres (9,570 ft) at its highest peak. Once considered the throne of the Gods, it is today extremely popular among hikers and climbers who deem its height as a challenge. Moreover, northeastern Greece features yet another high-altitude mountain range, the Rhodope range, spreading across the periphery of East Macedonia and Thrace; this area is covered with vast, thick, ancient forests. The famous Dadia forest is in the prefecture of Evros, in the far northeast of the country.

Expansive plains are primarily located in the prefectures of Thessaly, Central Macedonia and Thrace. They constitute key economic regions as they are among the few arable places in the country. Volos and Larissa are the two largest cities of Thessaly. Rare marine species such as the Pinniped Seals and the Loggerhead Sea Turtle live in the seas surrounding mainland Greece, while its dense forests are home to the endangered brown bear, the lynx, the Roe Deer and the Wild Goat.

[edit] Climate

Main article: Climate of Greece


Greece enjoys a typical sunny and warm Mediterranean Climate
The climate of Greece can be categorised into three types that influence well-defined regions of its territory. The Pindus mountain range strongly affects the climate of the country by making the western side of it (areas prone to the south-westerlies) wetter on average than the areas lying to the east of it (lee side of the mountains). The three distinct types are the Mediterranean, the Alpine and the Temperate types. The first one features mild, wet winters and hot, dry summers. The Cyclades, the Dodecanese, Crete, Eastern Peloponessus and parts of the Sterea Ellada region are mostly affected by this particular type. Temperatures rarely reach extreme values although snowfalls do occur occasionally even in the Cyclades or the Dodecanese during the winter months.

The Alpine type is dominant mainly in the mountainous areas of Northwestern Greece (Epirus, Central Greece, Thessaly, Western Macedonia) as well as in the central parts of Peloponnese, including the prefectures of Achaia, Arcadia and parts of Laconia, where extensions of the Pindus mountain range pass by). Finally, the Temperate type affects Central Macedonia and East Macedonia and Thrace; it features cold, damp winters and hot, dry summers. Athens is located in a transitional area featuring both the Mediterranean and the Temperate types. It averages about 16 inches (40.6 cm) of rain annually. The city's northern suburbs are dominated by the temperate type while the downtown area and the southern suburbs enjoy a typical Mediterranean type.

[edit] Economy

Greece operates a capitalist economy that produced a GDP of $305.595 billion in 2006. Its principal economic activities include tourism and shipping industries, banking and finance, manufacturing and construction and telecommunications. The country serves as the regional business hub for many of the world's largest multinational companies.[24]

The people of Greece enjoy a high standard of living. Greece ranks 24th[25] in the 2006 HDI, 22nd on The Economist's 2005 world-wide quality-of-life index,[26] and, according to the International Monetary Fund it has an estimated average per capita income of $35,166[27] for the year 2007, comparable to that of Germany, France and Italy and approximately equal to the EU average.

Greece's present prosperity is largely owed to the post-World War II "Greek economic miracle" (when GDP growth averaged 7% between 1950 and 1973), the implementation of a number of structural and fiscal reforms, combined with considerable European Union funding over the last twenty-five years and increasing private consumption and investments. The latter facts have contributed to a consistent annual growth of the Greek GDP that was surpassing the respective one of most of its other EU partners.[28]

Today, the service industry (74.4%) makes up the largest, most vital and fastest-growing sector of the Greek economy, followed by industry (20.6%) and agriculture (5.1%).[24] The tourism industry is a major source of foreign exchange earnings and revenue accounting for 15% of Greece’s total GDP[24] and employing (directly or indirectly) 659,719 people (or 16.5% of total employment). In 2005, Greece welcomed almost 18 million visitors and in 2006 that figure almost reached 20 million.

The Greek banking & finance sector is also an important source of revenue and employment and Greek banks have invested heavily in the Balkan region. The manufacturing sector accounts for about 13% of GDP with the food industry leading in growth, profit and export potential. Greece is the leading investor in all of her Balkan neighbors.

High-technology equipment production, especially for telecommunications, is also a fast-growing sector. Other important areas include textiles, building materials, machinery, transport equipment, and electrical appliances. Construction (10%GDP) and agriculture (7%) are yet two other significant sectors of the Greek economic activity.

[El Greco]

Maritime Industry

The shipping industry is a key element of Greek economic activity.[29] Given that Greece is a peninsula, shipping in ancient times was the natural way for Greeks to reach their neighboring people, trade with them and expand by establishing colonies. Today, shipping is one of the country's most important industries. It accounts for 4.5% of GDP, employs about 160,000 people (4% of the workforce), and represents 1/3 of the country's trade deficit.[30]

During the 1960s the size of the Greek fleet nearly doubled, primarily through the investment undertaken by the shipping magnates Onassis and Niarchos.[31] The basis of the modern Greek maritime industry was formed after World War II when Greek shipping businessmen were able to amass surplus ships sold to them by the United States Government through the Ship Sales Act of the 1940s.[31] According to the BTS, the Greek-owned maritime fleet is today the largest in the world, with 3,079 vessels accounting for 18% of the world's fleet capacity (making it the largest of any other country) with a total dwt of 141,931 thousand (142 million dwt).[32] In terms of ship categories, Greece ranks first in both tankers and dry bulk carriers, fourth in the number of containers, and fourth in other ships.[32] However, today's fleet roster is smaller than an all-time high of 5,000 ships in the late 70's.[29]

[edit] Science and Technology
The Rio-Antirio bridge near the city of Patras is the longest cable-stayed bridge in Europe and second in the world. It connects the Peloponnese with mainland Greece.
The Rio-Antirio bridge near the city of Patras is the longest cable-stayed bridge in Europe and second in the world. It connects the Peloponnese with mainland Greece.

Because of its strategic location, qualified workforce and political and economic stability, many multinational companies, such as Ericsson, Siemens, SAP, Motorola, Coca-Cola have their regional R&D Headquarters in Greece.

The General Secretariat for Research and Technology of the Hellenic Ministry of Development is responsible for designing, implementing and supervising national research and technological policy.

In 2003, public spending on R&D was 456,37 million Euros (12,6% increase from 2002). Total research and development (R&D) spending (both public and private) as a percentage of GDP has increased considerably since the beginning of the past decade, from 0,38% in 1989, to 0,65% in 2001. R&D spending in Greece remains lower than the EU average of 1,93%, but, according to Research DC, based on OECD and Eurostat data, between 1990 and 1998, total R&D expenditure in Greece enjoyed the third highest increase in Europe, after Finland and Ireland.

In 2001, there were 55,626 researchers (from 30,500 in 1993)in such fields as telecommunications, microelectronics, multimedia, computer science, computer networks and software engineering, attracting the interest of many multinational companies and producing an increasing number of high quality publications. Of that number, approximately 33,507 were employed in Higher Education Foundations, 13,100 by private companies, 8,800 in State-owned Research Centres and approximately 200 in non-profit private research centres.

Greece's technology parks with incubator facilities include the Science and Technology Park of Crete (Heraklion), the Thessaloniki Technology Park,the Lavrio Technology Park and the Patras Science Park.

Greece has been a member of the European Space Agency (ESA) since 2005.[11] Cooperation between ESA and the Hellenic National Space Committee began in the early 1990s. In 1994, Greece and ESA signed their first cooperation agreement. Having formally applied for full membership in 2003, Greece became ESA's sixteenth member on March 16 2005. As member of the ESA, Greece participates in the agency's telecommunication and technology activities, and the Global Monitoring for Environment and Security Initiative.

[edit] Demographics

The official Statistical body of Greece is the National Statistical Service of Greece (NSSG). According to the NSSG, Greece's total population in 2001 was 10,964,020.[33] That figure is divided into 5,427,682 males and 5,536,338 females.[33] As statistics from 1971, 1981, and 2001 show, the Greek population has been aging the past several decades.[33] The birth rate in 2003 stood 9.5 per 1,000 inhabitants (14.5 per 1,000 in 1981). At the same time the mortality rate increased slightly from 8.9 per 1,000 inhabitants in 1981 to 9.6 per 1,000 inhabitants in 2003. In 2001, 16.71% of the population were 65 years old and older, 68.12% between the ages of 15 and 64 years old, and 15.18% were 14 years old and younger.[33] In 1971 the figures were 10.92%, 63.72%, and 25.36% respectively.[33] Greek society has also rapidly changed with the passage of time. Marriage rates kept falling from almost 71 per 1,000 inhabitants in 1981 until 2002, only to increase slightly in 2003 to 61 per 1,000 and then fall again to 51 in 2004.[33] Divorce rates on the other hand, have seen an increase – from 191.2 per 1,000 marriages in 1991 to 239.5 per 1,000 marriages in 2004.[33] Almost two-thirds of the Greek people live in urban areas. Greece's largest municipalities in 2001 were: Athens (745,514),[34] Thessaloniki (363,987),[34] Piraeus (175,697),[34] Patras (161,114),[34] Iraklio (133,012),[34] Larissa (124,786),[34] and Volos (82,439).[34]

[edit] Minorities

The only minority in Greece that has a specially recognized legal status is the Muslim minority (Μουσουλμανική μειονότητα) in Thrace, which amounts to approximately 0.95% of the total population. Its members are predominantly of Turkish, Pomak and Roma ethnic origins. Other recognized minorities include approximately 35,000 Armenians and 5,500 Jews. There are also a number of linguistic minority groups, whose members also speak Greek and generally identify ethnically as Greeks. These include the Arvanites, who speak a form of Albanian known as Arvanitika[35] and the Aromanians and Moglenites, also known as Vlachs, whose languages are closely related to Romanian. It is very difficult to obtain direct evidence how much multilingual Greece is and there are evidence of certain distortion in academic research on this topic. In 1994, the International Helsinki Federation for Human Rights issued a report extremely critical of the Greek states treatment of minorities.[36]

[edit] Immigration

Due to the complexity of Greek immigration policy, practices and data collection, truly reliable data on immigrant populations in Greece is difficult to gather and therefore subject to much speculation. A study from the Mediterranean Migration Observatory maintains that the 2001 Census from the NSSG recorded 762,191 persons residing in Greece without Greek citizenship, constituting around 7% of total population and that, of these, 48,560 were EU or EFTA nationals and 17,426 Cypriots with privileged status. At the same time, Albanians constituted some 56% of total immigrants, followed by Bulgarians (5%), Georgians (3%) and Romanians (3%). Americans, Cypriots, British and Germans appeared as sizeable foreign communities at around 2% each of total foreign population. The rest were around 690,000 persons of non-EU or non-homogeneis status.

The greatest cluster of non-EU immigrant population is in the Municipality of Athens –some 132,000 immigrants, at 17% of local population. Thessaloniki is the second largest cluster, with 27,000 – but reaching only 7% of local population. After this, the predominant areas of location are the Athens environs.

According to the same study, the foreign population (documented and undocumented) residing in Greece may in reality figure upwards to 8.5% or 10.3%, that is approximately meaning 1.15 million - if immigrants with homogeneis cards are accounted for.

[El Greco]

Religion

The constitution of Greece recognizes the Greek Orthodox faith as the "prevailing" religion of the country, while guaranteeing freedom of religious belief for all.[13] The majority of Greek citizens (97%) identify themselves as Greek Orthodox,[37] and most of them celebrate at least the main religious feasts, especially Pascha (Greek Orthodox Easter).

The Greek Government does not keep statistics on religious groups and censuses do not ask for religious affiliation.[37] Judaism has existed in Greece for more than 2,000 years. Sephardi Jews had such a large presence in the city of Thessaloniki that their traditional language, Ladino, had been spoken by the non-Jews of the city as well. Few Greek Jews survived the Holocaust, and today the Jewish community is estimated to number around 5,500.[37][38] Estimates of the recognised Muslim minority, which is mostly located in Thrace, range from 98,000 to 140,000,[37][38] (between 0.9% and 1.2%) while the immigrant Muslim community numbers between 200,000 and 300,000.[37] In an address to the Holy Synod of the Orthodox Church of Greece on 10 October 2006 Archbishop Christodoulos stated: "Today more than 500,000 Muslims live in our country."[39]

Greek members of Roman Catholic faith (including both Byzantine Greek Catholics and Latin Catholics) are estimated at 50,000 [37][38] with the Roman Catholic immigrant community approximating 200,000.[37] Old Calendarists account for 500,000 followers.[38] The Jehovah's Witnesses report having 30,000 active members.[37][38] Protestants including Evangelicals stand at about 30,000.[38][37] Free Apostolic Church of Pentecost and other Pentecostals denominations are about 12,000.[40] Mormons can also be found with 420 followers,[37] and Scientologists with 500 followers.[37]

The ancient Greek religion has also reappeared,[41] with approximately 2,000 adherents, comprising 0.02% of the general population.[42] Some of these Greek religionists have made claims that they are not reconstructionists but are just people coming out of the closet.[43]

In the Eurostat - Eurobarometer poll of 2005, 81% of Greek citizens responded that they believe there is a God,[44] whereas 16% answered that they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force,[44] and 3% that they do not believe there is a God, spirit, nor life force.[44] Greece's percentage of respondents asserting that they believe there is a God was the third highest among EU members behind Malta and Cyprus.[44]

[edit] Education

Compulsory education in Greece comprises primary schools (Δημοτικό Σχολείο, Dimotikó Scholeio) and gymnasium (Γυμνάσιο). Nursery schools (Παιδικός σταθμός, Paidikós Stathmós) are popular but not compulsory. Kindergartens (Νηπιαγωγείο, Nipiagogeío) are now compulsory for any child above 4 years of age. Children start primary school aged 6 and remain there for six years. Some primary schools are "all-day", offering an extended timetable and enriched syllabus. Attendance at gymnasia starts at age 12 and last for three years. Greece's post-compulsory secondary education consists of two school types: unified upper secondary schools (Ενιαίο Λύκειο, Eniaia Lykeia) and technical-vocational educational schools (Τεχνικά και Επαγγελματικά Εκπαιδευτήρια, "TEE"). Post-compulsory secondary education also includes vocational training institutes (Ινστιτούτα Επαγγελματικής Κατάρτισης, "IEK") which provide a formal but unclassified level of education. As they can accept both Gymnasio (lower secondary school) and Lykeio (upper secondary school) graduates, these institutes are not classified as offering a particular level of education. The Programme for International Student Assessment, coordinated by the OECD, currently ranks the Greek secondary education as the 38th in the world, being significantly below the OECD average.[1]

Public higher education is divided into universities, "Highest Educational Institutions" (Ανώτατα Εκπαιδευτικά Ιδρύματα, Anótata Ekpaideytiká Idrýmata, "ΑΕΙ") and "Highest Technological Educational Institutions" (Ανώτατα Τεχνολογικά Εκπαιδευτικά Ιδρύματα, Anótata Technologiká Ekpaideytiká Idrýmata, "ATEI"). Students are admitted to these Institutes according to their performance at national level examinations taking place after completion of the third grade of Lykeio. Additionally, students over twenty-two years old may be admitted to the Hellenic Open University through a form of lottery. The Capodistrian university of Athens is the oldest university in the eastern Mediterranean

The Greek education system also provides special kindergartens, primary and secondary schools for people with special needs or difficulties in learning. Specialist gymnasia and high schools offering musical, theological and physical education also exist.

Some of the main universities in Greece include:

National and Capodistrian University of Athens • National Technical University of Athens • University of Piraeus • University of Macedonia (in Thessaloniki) • University of Crete • Technical University of Crete • Athens University of Economics and Business • Aristotle University of Thessaloniki • University of the Aegean (across the Aegean Islands) • Democritus University of Thrace • University of Ioannina • University of Thessaly • Panteion University of Social and Political Sciences • University of Patras • Charokopeio University of Athens • Ionian University (across the Ionian Islands)

[El Greco]

Culture

Greek culture evolved over several thousand years, with its earliest known civilization being in the Mycenean and Minoan era, continuing into Classical Greece, the birth of the Hellenistic era and through the influence of the Roman Empire and its Greek Eastern successor the Byzantine Empire. The Ottoman Empire also had a significant influence on Greek culture, but the Greek war of independence is credited for the revitalization of Greece and establishing a single sovereign single entity, of its multi-faceted culture throughout the ages.

Notably Greece is known as "the cradle of Western civilization".

[edit] Sports

The Greek national football team is the reigning UEFA European Champions having won the EURO 2004.[45] In the final, the team managed to beat their Portuguese opponents by 1-0.[45] They are as of February 2008 ranked 10th in the world,[46] and have recently qualified for Euro 2008 where they will get to defend their crown. The Greek Super League is the highest professional football league in the country. Currently sixteen clubs compete in that league, playing each other twice, once at home and once away. At the end of each season, the bottom three clubs are relegated to the Second National League only to be replaced by the top three teams from that particular league. The top three most known football clubs are Panathinaikos, Olympiacos, and AEK Athens.

The men's Greek national basketball team has a decades-long tradition of excellence in the sport. Greece is generally considered an important power in international basketball and the national team is regarded as one of the best in the world. They are as of January 2008 ranked 6th in the world,[47] They have won the European Championship twice, once in 1987 and again in 2005,[48] and have reached the final four in three of the last four FIBA World Championships (1994, 1998, 2006) taking second place in 2006. The domestic Greek basketball league, A1 Ethniki is composed of fourteen teams. The most successful Greek teams are Panathinaikos, Aris Salonica, Olympiacos, AEK Athens and PAOK.

Cricket is also popular in Greece, in particular in Corfu where the sport dominates due to its long connections with the British. The Greek National Cricket team is an associate member of the ICC.

[Uyyonli]

Culture

Greek culture evolved over several thousand years, with its earliest known civilization being in the Mycenean and Minoan era, continuing into Classical Greece, the birth of the Hellenistic era and through the influence of the Roman Empire and its Greek Eastern successor the Byzantine Empire. The Ottoman Empire also had a significant influence on Greek culture, but the Greek war of independence is credited for the revitalization of Greece and establishing a single sovereign single entity, of its multi-faceted culture throughout the ages.

Notably Greece is known as "the cradle of Western civilization".

[edit] Sports

The Greek national football team is the reigning UEFA European Champions having won the EURO 2004.[45] In the final, the team managed to beat their Portuguese opponents by 1-0.[45] They are as of February 2008 ranked 10th in the world,[46] and have recently qualified for Euro 2008 where they will get to defend their crown. The Greek Super League is the highest professional football league in the country. Currently sixteen clubs compete in that league, playing each other twice, once at home and once away. At the end of each season, the bottom three clubs are relegated to the Second National League only to be replaced by the top three teams from that particular league. The top three most known football clubs are Panathinaikos, Olympiacos, and AEK Athens.

The men's Greek national basketball team has a decades-long tradition of excellence in the sport. Greece is generally considered an important power in international basketball and the national team is regarded as one of the best in the world. They are as of January 2008 ranked 6th in the world,[47] They have won the European Championship twice, once in 1987 and again in 2005,[48] and have reached the final four in three of the last four FIBA World Championships (1994, 1998, 2006) taking second place in 2006. The domestic Greek basketball league, A1 Ethniki is composed of fourteen teams. The most successful Greek teams are Panathinaikos, Aris Salonica, Olympiacos, AEK Athens and PAOK.

Cricket is also popular in Greece, in particular in Corfu where the sport dominates due to its long connections with the British. The Greek National Cricket team is an associate member of the ICC.
:-D so much to read :) but good to know that Greeks are very sportive people. U should be proud.

[El Greco]

:-D so much to read :) but good to know that Greeks are very sportive people. U should be proud.

Thanks man!:) What about U-stan football status? I really like to know

[El Greco]

By the way,i would like to thank all people here on this forum who visited and show interest on topic and contribute with their posts:)

[El Greco]

We keep going on:frndshp:

[El Greco]

http://pneymatiko.vodpod.com/video/734847-byzantine-empire

I continue with a hommage to Byzantine Empire
Byzantine Emperors

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Medieval/ByzantineEmperors.html

It is not possible to effectually distinguish between the later empire in Rome and the Byzantine empire centered around Constantinople. For the Byzantines were the Roman Empire, not simply a continuation of it in the East. The capital city, Constantinople, had been founded as the capital of Rome by the Emperor Constantine, but a uniquely Greek or Byzantine character to the Roman Empire can be distinguished as early as Diocletian. When Rome was seized by Goths, this was a great blow to the Roman Empire, but it didn't effectively end it. Although Rome was under the control of foreigners who themselves claimed to be continuing the empire, the Byzantine empire continued as before, believing themselves to be the Roman Empire.

Over the centuries, however, Byzantium evolved into a very different civilization. The eastern Empire had always had a predominately Greek character, but the Byzantines through the course of the first millenium AD had to deal with cultural influences and political threats from European cultures, Asian cultures and, primarily, Islam after the seventh century.

Through the later Middle Ages, however, Byzantium both gradually declined politically and became more isolated from the rest of Europe. While the last centuries of the European Middle Ages saw the consolidation of the idea of Europe and the incorporation of European cultures into a larger, overarching European monoculture, Byzantium was left out of this new European concept. By the beginning of the modern period, when "Europe" had become a solid, cultural idea, Byzantine had come to an end with the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople.

Byzantine history, then, stretches in a continuous line from the latter centuries of Rome to the very beginning of the modern period. It transmited the classical culture of Greece and Rome but it also developed a unique historical and cultural character based on a synthesis of Greek, Roman, European, and Islamic elements.


Justinian Most historians consider the reign of Justinian (527-565) as marking a significant break with the Roman past. This is difficult to support—Justinian not only considered himself the emperor of all of Rome, including the territories occupied by the Goths, but also spoke Latin as his primary language.

After the fall of Rome, the Byzantine emperors never gave over the idea of reconquering Rome. They did, however, take a lesson from the fall of Rome and all throughout the fifth century, the Byzantine emperors wrought a series of administrative and financial reforms. They produced the single most extensive corpus of Roman law in 425 and reformed taxation dramatically. Most importantly, however, they did not entrust their military to German generals—this had been the downfall of the Latin portion of the empire. They could not, however, maintain a powerful military—the loss of territory in the west had dramatically shrunk their financial resources.

Justinian was perhaps the last emperor that seriously entertained notions of reconquering the west—the institution of the western emperor fell permanently vacant in 476 and the Byzantine emperors claimed as theirs. His expeditions against Italy, however, failed. Although he conquered North Africa and retook Italy from the Ostrogoths, this Gothic War drained the Byzantine Empire of much-needed resources. Most importantly, the Gothic War devestated Italy economically. The economic destruction of Italy was so total that it destroyed Italian urban culture for centuries. The great cities of Rome and her allies would be abandoned as Italy would fall into a long period of backwardness. The impoverishment of Italy and the drain on Byzantium made it impossible for the Byzantines to hold Italy—only three years after the death of Justinian, the Italian territories fell into the hands of another Germanic tribe, the "Long Beards," or Langobardi (Lombards).

Justinian, however, is most famous for the body of laws that he promulgated—the Corpus iuris civilis. This was not only a great legal achievement in codifying Roman law, it was also the first systematic attempt to synthesize Roman law and jurisprudence with Christianity. Although Byzantium would eventually fade in influence, from the eleventh century onwards, Justinian's Corpus iuris civilis became the foundation of all European law and legal practice (except for England).

Justinian is also credited for founding Byzantine architecture with his building of the Santa Sophia in Constantinople and the church of San Vitale in Ravenna, Italy. The Santa Sophia continued the Roman tradition of building domes, the architecture of the Roman basilica, but it was carried out on a scale unheard of in earlier centuries. In fact, it would remain the largest dome ever built until Sinan built the Selimye Mosque in the sixteenth century. Both Santa Sophia and San Vitale are decorated inside with a uniquely Byzantine mosaic style, a style that was to characterize Byzantine architecture for nearly another millenium. It is a style that fuses both Roman mosaic realism and an otherworldly, almost abstract use of simple forms and dramatic colors.

The most serious and lasting mistake of Justinian's reign was the persecution of heretical Christians. The eastern empire had always been distinguished from the western empire by the proliferation of religions and metaphysical speculation as a characteristic of religions. This did not substantially change with the advent of Christianity. Although non-Christians were stamped, the eastern Christians engaged in high intellectual specuation on theological and Christological questions with a fervor unmatched in the West. You might say that the model of Christian belief in the east was more mystical and philosophical while the Christian belief in the west was more practical and obedience-centered. This meant that a number of competing doctrines circulated in the Greek-centered areas of the Byzantine world. One of these doctrines, the Monophysite doctrine, was so serious a challenge to the western church that it was declared heretical.

The Monophysite doctrine arose from Christological speculation. What was the nature of Christ? This was one of the dominant speculative questions in the eastern empire from the fifth century onwards. The Monophysites argued that Christ had one and only nature (mono=one, physis=nature) and that nature was divine—the orthodox Christian church held that Christ had a double nature, that of divinity and humanity. In the latter decades of the fifth century, the Byzantine Emperor declared himself to be a Monophysite—this estranged the Byzantines from the Roman Pope.

But Justinian—and his father before him, Justin I—needed the support of the Pope in order to retake Italy. So both Justin and Justinian renounced Monophysite belief and were reincorporated into the Latin church. But Justinian went even further—to demonstrate his commitment to Latin Christianity, he began a series of oppressive persecutions of Monophysites in Syria and Egypt. This would have a profound effect on later history—the Monophysite Christians, horribly persecuted by the Byzantines, welcomed Muslim conquerors with open arms based on their promise to tolerate their religion.

[El Greco]

Heraclius I (610-641). When he assumed the throne, things looked pretty hopeless. From the east, the Persian Empire threatened to overwhelm Asia Minor while from the west, a mix of German, Slavic, and Mongolian peoples were pressing into Greece and the Balkans. Heraclius decided to allow a group of Huns to settle the Balkans and protect the western border while the Byzantine empire focussed on Persia, which Heraclius finally defeated and permanently ended the long history of that great empire.

A new cultural force, however, emerged during his reign—in fact, the very year that Heraclius assumed the throne, a forty-year old Arab named Muhammad in the city of Mecca first heard the message that would sweep across the face of the world: Islam. By the end of his reign, Muslim armies were making raids into Byzantine territory in Syria and were beginning to conquer the Persian territories. From this period onwards, Byzantine energies focussed almost entirely to the east and to the south. The western countries, the Europe that Byzantium at one time looked to for their identity and history, began to steadily fade from their horizon.


Islam Almost all of Byzantine energy over the next centuries would be focussed on Islam. The Muslims very quickly conquered Byzantine territory in Syria and Egypt largely because of disaffected populations of Christians and Jews who had been persecuted since the time of Justinian. The patriarchal caliphs and later the Umayyad caliphs, however, really had their sights on Byzantine territory—in fact, the conquest of Byzantium itself. They easily conquered all the Persian territories, but they could never quite conquer the heart of Byzantium itself. In 670, they attempted this conquest with a large fleet; in 717, they tried again with a land and sea operation against the city.

This operation, however, turned the tide away from the Muslims. Under the emperor Leo the Isaurian (717-741), the Muslim invasion was turned back and the Byzantines began to hold their own against Islamic incursions.

As the centralized Islamic government under the caliph began to disintegrate in the ninth century, the Byzantines began to reassert their dominance over Asia Minor. By the middle of the tenth century, they reconquered most of Syria and were once again and powerful and influential empire stretching from Greece to Arabia.

In 1071, however, the Seljuk Turks conquered the Byzantine army at Manzikert in Asia Minor—after this victory, the Seljuks quickly overran all of Byzantine territory in the east.


The Crusaders The Byzantines, however, turned to Europe for help against the Muslims—the Byzantine emperor, Alexius Comnenius, called upon the European states to push back the Muslim conquerors. While Byzantium and the Europeans had drifted apart culturally, they still shared a common religion, and the European states complied. They had, however, designs of their own on Byzantine territories. While they successfully pushed back the Seljuks and returned territory to the Byzantines, the western Europeans also carved out kingdoms of their own in Syria and Palestine. This wasn't quite enough for them—in 1204, the Crusaders attacked, conquered, and pillaged the city of Constantinople, a goal that the Muslims had been trying for for centuries.

The amazing thing about this event is that it did not spell the end of the Byzantines. For a few decades, the Byzantine imperial government continued to function in Greece—in 1261, they returned to Constantinople and retook the city! But the Byzantine Empire was no longer an empire after 1261, but rather a small kingdom centered around Constantinople. In 1453, the city was finally and permanently conquered by the Ottoman Turks and renamed Istanbul. Byzantine culture, law, and administration came to its final end.


Byzantine Christianity Byzantine Christianity was a substantially different religion and cultural practice than Latin Christianity. One of its predominant characteristics was the role of the emperor in matters of faith. The Latin church had battled emperors for control of the church and with the disintegration of centralized authority in Europe and the proliferation of European kingdoms, the primacy of the Pope in matters of faith was relatively solidified.

The Byzantines, however, inherited the Roman idea that the emperor was near divinity and practiced a form of Christianity where enormous ecclesiastical and theological authority was vested in the emperor. This would eventually create a permanent breach in the world of Christianity between west and east and the event that would produce this breach was the Iconoclastic controversy.

The Iconoclastic theologians believed that the worship of images, or icons, was a fundamentally pagan belief. Products of human hands should not be worshipped, they argued, but only Christ and God should be the proper objects of veneration. The movement was inaugurated by Leo the Isaurian. It was Leo, remember, that turned the tide against the Muslim in 717. Islam is itself opposed to the worship of images, icons, and idols—one of the founding acts of Islam is Muhammad's destruction of all the idols and images in the sacred Ka'aba in Mecca. There is no doubt that the Iconoclasts were in part inspired by the religious purity of the Islamic faith. There is also little doubt that Iconoclasm would help the Byzantines regain territory conquered by the Muslims since it made Christianity more in line with the Islamic faith.

Iconoclasm, however, was fiercely opposed by the papacy which saw it as a threat not only to Latin ecclesiastical practices, but to the authority of the pope himself. When Leo's son, Constantine V even more zealously carried out the Iconoclastic program during his reign (740-775), the breach between the Latin and Byzantine church became permanent. Eventually, Iconoclasm would be abandoned in the ninth century—the breach, however, would never be healed.

The most significant result of the Iconoclastic controversy was the adoption of a strict traditionalism in the Byzantine church. The eastern church had long been characterized by speculation and innovation, but the Iconoclastic controversy was too disorienting. Almost overnight, the Byzantine church became averse to innovation and speculation. This created a more or less static religious culture and it also permanently ended the intellectual dynamism of Byzantine life.


Byzantine Philosophy Perhaps the single most salient aspect of Byzantine culture was the transmission of classical culture. While classical studies, science, and philosophy largely dissipated in the Latin west, Byzantine education and philosophy still zealously pursued these intellectual traditions. It was in Byzantium that Plato and Aristotle continued to be studied and were eventually transmitted first into the Islamic world and then back into western Europe. A basic education in Byzantium consisted first of the mastery of classical Greek literature, such as Homer (largely unknown in the West during this period)—almost all of the Greek literature we have today was only preserved by the Byzantines.

Unlike Greece and Rome during the classical period or the Latin West during the Middle Ages, women actively participated in the intellectual life of the culture. While they could not attend schools, aristocratic women were often well-educated at home by tutors in literature, history, composition, and philosophy. The greatest of Byzantine writers, in fact, was the historian Anna Comnena, the daughter of the emperor Alexius. Her biography of her father is one of the greatest works of medieval historiography in existence—this includes the histories written in Europe.


The Slavs Byzantine culture is important because of two lines of transmission. One of line of transmission involved the exporting of classical Greek and Roman culture into Islam and, to a lesser extent, the transmission of Byzantine theological speculation into Islamic theology. The second is the transmission of Byzantine culture and religion to Slavic peoples, especially to the Russians.

We know very little about the Slavs before the Middle Ages—what we do know we only know through archaeology. As Byzantium, however, turned less of its attention towards Europe and the west, they became increasingly interested in the peoples to the north. We don't know how cultural contact was initiated between these two peoples, but sometime around 988 a Russian ruler named Vladimir converted to Byzantine Christianity. From that point onwards, the Slavs in Russia became a kind of cultural inheritor of Byzantine culture, adopting the religion, theology, some social structures, and writing from the Byzantines to the south. In many ways Russian and Slavic culture is the continuance of Byzantine culture and many Byzantine cultural practices and beliefs are still practiced among Slavs today. Russian religion, art, philosophy, and even literature, such as the writings of Chekhov and Dostoevsky, show profound influences from Byzantine culture. The Byzantine inheritance also included the sense that Byzantine culture and practice was fundamentally different from European culture and practice. This sense of Byzantine distinctiveness would also impress itself on Slavic cultures up until the present.

So close was this cultural connection, that Russians believed that they were the inheritors of the Byzantine Empire when it finally collapsed in 1453. The Russian rulers assumed the title of "Caesar," the title bestowed on Byzantine emperors—in Russian, the word is "Tsar." With the government centered in Moscow, the Russian Tsars declared Moscow to be the "third Rome," after Rome and Byzantium, and so located themselves in a cultural and historical trajectory that began with the Roman empire.

[El Greco]

Byzantian Monuments

[Uyyonli]

Thanks man!:) What about U-stan football status? I really like to know
we trying to qualify for World Cup 2010. Just like Greece won the European Cup, we also have Asian Cup in nineteen nineties.

[Uyyonli]

I think Uzbekistan should play a friendly match with Greece so they can have a good experience...

[El Greco]

I think Uzbekistan should play a friendly match with Greece so they can have a good experience...

Make an official proposal:)

[El Greco]

Today i start a new section for Greek-Turkish relations and how Greeks see Turkey. I will appreciate if u take a tour:)

[El Greco]

I Do Not Forget!






The only remained separated city after Berlin, Nicosia Cyprous!
Peoples of the world demand restoration of justice!

[El Greco]

http://www.noitikiantistasis.com/wordpress/?p=390

PS if you don't speak Greek then copy and paste in to http://babelfish.altavista.com/ Greek-English
если вы не говорите грека после этого, то скопируйте и наклеите http://babelfish.altavista.com/[/url] Greek-English

[Qarama]

Today i start a new section for Greek-Turkish relations and how Greeks see Turkey. I will appreciate if u take a tour:)

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/6030/37228co6.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7100/37230tw6.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/9919/37227pc5.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4716/37226tr3.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/6680/37225fh9.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/8379/37224ns1.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5682/37231jq9.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres.jpg/300px-Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres.jpg

[El Greco]

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/6030/37228co6.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7100/37230tw6.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/9919/37227pc5.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4716/37226tr3.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/6680/37225fh9.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/8379/37224ns1.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5682/37231jq9.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres.jpg/300px-Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres.jpg

My friend Assalomu alaykum!

You have greetings from a Turk who lives and works here and he is happy.

Peace

[El Greco]

War is not needed. We can solve our problems with dialoque and respect of International Law

[El Greco]

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/6030/37228co6.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7100/37230tw6.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/9919/37227pc5.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4716/37226tr3.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/6680/37225fh9.jpg
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/8379/37224ns1.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5682/37231jq9.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres.jpg/300px-Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres.jpg

"Οσο υπάρχει η άτιμη ράτσα των Ελλήνων, το μίσος μου γ΄ αυτούς δεν πρόκειται να σβύσει.

Οσο στέκομαι όρθιος και βλέπω τον άτιμο τον Ελληνα απέναντί μου σαν σκυλί, ώ Θεέ μου το μίσος μου αυτό δεν πρόκειται να σβύσει.

Χίλια κομμένα κεφάλια Ελλήνων δεν μπορούν να σβύσουν αυτό που βράζει μέσα μου.

Αχ να μπορούσα να συντρίψω με πέτρες τα κεφάλια δέκα χιλιάδων Ελλήνων. Να μπορούσα να ξεριζώσω με τανάλια τα δόντια δέκα χιλιάδων από δαύτους.

Να μπορούσα να ρίξω στο ποτάμι τα πτώματα χιλιάδων. Να τρυπήσω με το σπαθί μου σαράντα χιλιάδες Ελληνες, να στείλω στην κόλαση ογδόντα χιλιάδες και να κρεμάσω εκατό χιλιάδες.

Ω Θεέ μου το μίσος αυτό δεν πρόκειται να σβύσει. Χίλια κεφάλια Γκιαούρηδων δεν μπορούν να το βγάλουν απ' την καρδιά μου"

Τουρκικό λαϊκό ποίημα



"As long as exists the dishonest race of Greeks, my hate for them is not going to stop. As long as I stand upright and see the dishonest Greek as dog, oh God my hate is not going to stop.

Thousand cutten Greek heads cannot stop what "boils" inside me. Ahh I could shatter with Stones the heads of ten thousands of Greeks.

Could eradicate with pincers the teeth of ten thousands from them. Could throw in the river the corpses of thousands. Puncture with my sword forty thousands Greeks, send in the hell eighty thousands and hang hundred of thousands.

Oh my God the hate is not going to stop. Thousand heads of greekdogs cannot remove hate from my heart "

Turkish popular poem

"как длиной как существует нечестная гонка греков, моя ненависть для их не идет остановить. Как длиной по мере того как я стою чистосердечным и вижу нечестного грека как собака, бог oh моя ненависть не идет остановить. Тысяча cutten греческие головки не могут остановить "кипит" внутри меня. Ahh ii1 было в состоянии разрушить с камнями головки 10 тысяч греков. Был в состоянии искоренить с пинцетами зубы 10 тысяч от их. Был в состоянии бросить в реку трупы тысяч. Проколите с моей шпагой 40 греков тысяч, пошлите в аде 80 тысяч и повисните 100 из тысяч. Oh мой бог ненависть не идет остановить. Тысяча головок greekdogs не могут извлечь ненависть от poem(moego сердца "
турецкое популярное

Basicly this is what our so called "neighbours and allies", believe and feel inside their heart. They keep so well kept secret, their hatrism and twisted pation for blood of the Greeks!!!
What u show above is true i don't disagree but they come from a small percent of xtra nationalists.
In Turkish case however it is a popular poem(!!!) a whole nation sing this in national holiday, and in school kids are taught to sing!
THIS IS THE FACE OF MODERN TURKEY

[Qarama]

lol i heard that for the first time that it is a poem or a song very funny. From where should i know that this is fake? It is strange that in the last 5 years when i visited many many history or other forums i never saw a greek who sais positive things about turks. Do you know that in the greek army they sing anti-turkish songs during their military training? a good turk is a dead turk or we will cut their heads off etc. you must also know that the orthodox clerics preach that a day will come where a priest will fly on an angel to Anatolia and conquer it. I'm sure that you also know that when the Greeks entered Izmir the King or who ever the leader was stepped on the Turkish flag. When the Turks recaptured Izmir, Mustafa Kemal also had the chance to do that with the greek flag, when they asked him to do so. But he didn't do it.
And in Greece you can buy that kind of flags in shops easily.
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/6680/37225fh9.jpg

[umut_umut]

"Οσο υπάρχει η άτιμη ράτσα των Ελλήνων, το μίσος μου γ΄ αυτούς δεν πρόκειται να σβύσει.

Οσο στέκομαι όρθιος και βλέπω τον άτιμο τον Ελληνα απέναντί μου σαν σκυλί, ώ Θεέ μου το μίσος μου αυτό δεν πρόκειται να σβύσει.

Χίλια κομμένα κεφάλια Ελλήνων δεν μπορούν να σβύσουν αυτό που βράζει μέσα μου.

Αχ να μπορούσα να συντρίψω με πέτρες τα κεφάλια δέκα χιλιάδων Ελλήνων. Να μπορούσα να ξεριζώσω με τανάλια τα δόντια δέκα χιλιάδων από δαύτους.

Να μπορούσα να ρίξω στο ποτάμι τα πτώματα χιλιάδων. Να τρυπήσω με το σπαθί μου σαράντα χιλιάδες Ελληνες, να στείλω στην κόλαση ογδόντα χιλιάδες και να κρεμάσω εκατό χιλιάδες.

Ω Θεέ μου το μίσος αυτό δεν πρόκειται να σβύσει. Χίλια κεφάλια Γκιαούρηδων δεν μπορούν να το βγάλουν απ' την καρδιά μου"

Τουρκικό λαϊκό ποίημα



"As long as exists the dishonest race of Greeks, my hate for them is not going to stop. As long as I stand upright and see the dishonest Greek as dog, oh God my hate is not going to stop.

Thousand cutten Greek heads cannot stop what "boils" inside me. Ahh I could shatter with Stones the heads of ten thousands of Greeks.

Could eradicate with pincers the teeth of ten thousands from them. Could throw in the river the corpses of thousands. Puncture with my sword forty thousands Greeks, send in the hell eighty thousands and hang hundred of thousands.

Oh my God the hate is not going to stop. Thousand heads of greekdogs cannot remove hate from my heart "

Turkish popular poem

"как длиной как существует нечестная гонка греков, моя ненависть для их не идет остановить. Как длиной по мере того как я стою чистосердечным и вижу нечестного грека как собака, бог oh моя ненависть не идет остановить. Тысяча cutten греческие головки не могут остановить "кипит" внутри меня. Ahh ii1 было в состоянии разрушить с камнями головки 10 тысяч греков. Был в состоянии искоренить с пинцетами зубы 10 тысяч от их. Был в состоянии бросить в реку трупы тысяч. Проколите с моей шпагой 40 греков тысяч, пошлите в аде 80 тысяч и повисните 100 из тысяч. Oh мой бог ненависть не идет остановить. Тысяча головок greekdogs не могут извлечь ненависть от poem(moego сердца "
турецкое популярное

Basicly this is what our so called "neighbours and allies", believe and feel inside their heart. They keep so well kept secret, their hatrism and twisted pation for blood of the Greeks!!!
What u show above is true i don't disagree but they come from a small percent of xtra nationalists.
In Turkish case however it is a popular poem(!!!) a whole nation sing this in national holiday, and in school kids are taught to sing!
THIS IS THE FACE OF MODERN TURKEY


Is this a popular poem in Turkey ?? :qstn:

I am living in Turkey and I have just read that poem from your text. I think you are dreaming EL Greco. I joined most of our national day celebrations and we didnt sing that idiot poem. I was a student and during my education period (it means 16 years) , no one thought me that idiot poem too. I have never met a person who sing or who can know that poem or song or what the hell it is.

Dont be prejudiced and dont believe everything you heard.

We are all adult people dear, we dont need to listen a story to sleep.

Peace be upon you.

[NativeAmerican]

attention to all forum users. the member who called "el greco" is not a greek. he can write the Uzbek language in the proper way. He does use translator to copy/paste + translate articles into greek-english. I personally request administration to research his previous position and existance in this forum.
Regards.

[versus]

I want to visit greece in athens:nod:

[versus]

http://www.hidden-greece.co.uk/destinations/cyclades/Cyc_Main_Pix/Mykonos_Village.jpg
http://www.friendlyplanet.com/images/mykonos-greece-big.jpg
mykonos is a nice tourist spot

[versus]

athens is the capital of greece :nod: i have relatives people i know in greece my friend has a big house in greece

http://whirledview.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/11/greece_athens_kolonaki_street_cafe_.jpg

[macedon]

Hi guys!
I'm starting this thread in order to understand how many of Uzbek citizens know something about country of Greece...

who are greeks?-HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks

Abstract:
HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Re¬public of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, par¬ticularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-join¬ing dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached:
1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Ar¬menians and Iranians,
2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum,
3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups.
Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310.

Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses.
The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displace¬ment of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.

The highly polymorphic HLA system has been validated as useful for distinguishing and/or relating populations (and individuals) in many research studies since the first International HLA Anthropology Workshop (Evian, 1973) and in all the subsequent seven International Workshops.
HLA gene frequencies correlate with geographically re¬lated populations.
The existence or absence of gene flow among neighbouring ethnic groups may be assessed with the study of HLA frequencies and the corresponding genetic distances (1,2).

Ancient Macedonians were among the peoples that lived between northern Greece (Thessaly) and Thrace in the Balkans and were considered by the classical Greeks as ‘‘non-Greek barbarians’’ that could not participate in the Greek Olympic Games (3).
Herodotus wrote that "Macedonians" were "Dorians" and were never admitted to the Greek community (4).
They did not speak Greek but another language presently unknown and of which only proper names remain; nowadays, they speak a Slavic language (5).
Macedonians fought against the Greeks between 357-336 B.C. under King Philip II.
They defeated the Greeks at the Battle of Chaironea (338 B.C.).
The Macedonian empire extended from the Balkan Peninsula to the Himalayas and to North Africa during the reign of Philip's son, Alexander the Great (6).

please,search google about
HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks

Since its inception in 1829, The Former Turkish Province of Yunanistan (modern Greece) has systematically lied to the world about its own and later about Macedonia´s past claiming Macedonia was and still is "Greek". The Former Turkish Province of Yunanistan (modern Greece) has also made claims that only "Greeks" live in The Former Turkish Province of Yunanistan and has literally waged war against people who continued to claim to be non-"Greeks" and against those who refute its official position.

[macedon]

Hi guys!
I'm starting this thread in order to understand how many of Uzbek citizens know something about country of Greece...

A COMPILATION OF COMMON WORDS IN TURKISH AND GREEK

TURKISH ENGLISH GREEK
__________________________________________________ ______________

Adet Custom Adeti
Afaroz Excommunicate Aforismos
Aga Land owner Agas
Ahmak Idiot Ahmakis
Ahtapot Octopus Htapodi
Alan Area, ground Alana
Alarga Open sea, distant Alarga

Aman For mercy's sake Aman
Anadolu Anatolia (East in Greek) Anatoli
Ananas Pineapple Ananas
Anason Aniseed Anithos
Anfora Anchor Amphoreus
Angarya Forced labor Angaria
Aptal Stupid Abdalis
Apukurya Carnival Apokria
Arap Negro, bogyman Arapis
Arnavut Albanian Arnautis
Asik Someone in love Asikis
Atlet Athlete Athlitis
Avanak Gullible, stupid Avanakis
Ayran A drink Ariani
Baba Father Babas
Baca Chimney Batzias
Bacak Leg, leg of trousers in G. Batzaki
Bacanak Brother in law Batjanakis
Baglama A string instrument Baglamas

Bahce Garden Bahtses
Bahsis Tip Baxisi
Bakir Copper Bakiri
Bakkal Grocer Bakkalis
Baklava Baklava Baklavas
Balta Ax Baltas
Bamya Okra Bamia
Barbunya A fish Barbunia
Barut Gunpowder Baruti
Battaniye Woolen Blanket Batania
Batakci Swindler Bataxis
Bayrak Flag Bairaki
Bekar Batchelor Bekiaris
Bekri Drunk Bekris
Bela Trouble Belas
Benzin Petrol, gas Benzina
Bereket Abundance, plenty Bereket
Beton Concrete Beton
Bey Mr. Beis

Bezelye Pea Bizeli
Biber Pepper Piperi
Biftek Steak Bifteki
Bodrum Cellar, dungeon Boudroumi
Bomba Bomb Bomba
Bostan Vegetable field, garden Bostani
Bora Storm Bora
Boya Paint Bogia
Borek Pastry, pie Boureki
Bre Hi, you Vre
Budala Idiot Boudalas
Bulgur Boiled wheat Bligouri
But Thigh Bouti
Buz Ice, very cold Bouzi
Buzuki Bouzouki Bouzouki
Cacik A drink with cucumbers Tzatziki
Caka Swagger, vanity Tsaka
Cam Window pane Tzami
Cami Mosque Tzami

Cambaz Acrobat, dealer in G. Tzambazis
Cenabet Crabbed person Tzanabetis
Cep Pocket Tsepi
Cereme Fine or cost of damage Tzeremes
Cezve Coffee Pot Tzesves
Ciger Liver, lungs Tziyeri
Cimbiz Tweezers Tsimpida
Cuce Dwarf Tsutzes
Cadir Tent Tsiantiri
Cakirkeyif Slightly drunk Tsakir-kefi
Cali Thorny plant Tsiali
Calim Flexibility, show off Tsalimi
Cam Pine tree Tsami
Canak Shallow bowl Tsanaki
Canta Handbag Tsanta
Capacul Untidy Tsapatulis
Capari Weight anchor Tsapari
Capkin Seducer, coquettish Tsahpinis
Capraz Crossed Tsaprazi

Cardak Hut of dried branches Tsardaki
Carsi Market Charsi
Carik Rustic shoe Tsarouhi
Catal Fork Tsatala
Catra Patra Stumbling speech Tsatra patra
Cavus Sergeant Tsausis
Cay Tea Tsai
Celebi Pleasant man, mentor Tselebis
Cember Circle Tsemperi
Cengel Hook Tsingeli
Ciklet Chewing gum Tsikla
Ciftetelli A dance Tsiftetelli
Ciftlik Large country estate Tsifliki
Cifit Tight in money Tsifoutis
Cimento Cement Tsimento
Cinko Zinc Tsingos
Ciftlik Big farm, property Tsifliki
Cirak Apprentice Tsiraki
Cipura A fish Tsipura

Ciroz A fish Tsiros
Coban Shepherd Tsobanis
Corap Woolen sock Tsurapis
Corba soup Tsorbas
Corek Large bun Tsoureki
Cotra File fish Tsotra
Dalavere Trick, deceit Dalavere
Dalga Wave (sorrow,love in G.) Dalka
Dantel Lace Ntantella
Darbuka Drum Ntarbuka
Davul Drum Ntauli
Defne Laurel Dafni
Defter Notebook Tefteri
Demet Bouquet Demati
Dervis Dervish Dervisis
Dert Sorrow, trouble Derti
Despot Despot Despotis
Diploma Diploma Diploma
Direk Pole Ntereki

Divan Sofa Divani
Diyakos Deacon Diakos
Dogru Straight Dogrou
Domates Tomatoes Ntomates
Dolap Cupboard Ntoulapi
Dolma Stuffed leaves Ntolmas
Drahoma Dowry Trahoma
Duvar Wall Ntouvari
Dumbelek Small drum Toumbeleki
Dumen Rudder, steering wheel Timoni
Dunya World Dounya
Duzine Dozen Ntouzina
Efendi Gentleman Afendis
Eksen Axis Axonas
Enginar Artichoke Anginara
Evlek A measure of land Avlakia
Falcata Shoemaker's knife Faltseta
Fanus Lantern, lampglass Fanos
Faras Dust pan Farasi

Farfara Empty headed, frivolity Farfara
Fasulye Bean Fasoulia
Fener Lantern Fanari
Ferman Sultan's word Firmani
Fincan Cup Flitzani
Findik Walnut Fountouki
Firca Brush Vourtsa
Firkete Hairpin Fourketa
Fidan Plant, sapling Fidani
Filozof Philosopher Filosofos
Fisek Cartridge Fiseki
Fistan Woman's dress Foustani
Fistik Pistacchio Nuts Fistiki
Fitil Fuse Fitili
Fol Nest egg (Pros) Foli
Fukara Poor,Hopeless Fukaras
Gaf Mistake, blunder Gafi
Gaile Care ,Difficulty Gaila
Galeta Breadcrumbs Galeta

Gargara Gargle Gargara
Gazoz Fizzy water Gazoza
Gem Horse bridle Gemi
Gemici Sailor Gemitzis
Gonder Flag pole Kontari
Goril Gorilla Gorillas
Gubre Manure, fertilizer Kopria
Gugum Jug Gumi
Gul Rose Yioulia
Guverte Deck of a ship Kouverta
Haber News Haberi
Hali Carpet, rug Hali
Halka Ring Halkas
Hamam Turkish bath Hamami
Hamal Porter Hamalis
Hancer Short sword Hatzari
Hanim Lady Hanoumi-Hanoumissa
Hap Pill Hapi
Harita Map Hartis

Haram Waste, sin Harami
Harem Harem Haremi
Harman Blend Harmani
Hatir For somebody's sake,favor Hatiri
Hava Air, mood Havas
Havyar Caviar Haviar
Havuz Cistern, pool Havuza
Hayvan Animal, beast Haivani
Helva Halva, a desert Halvas
Hendek Ditch Handaki
Hoca Teacher, priest Hotzas
Hora Dance Horos
Horon Dance Horos
Hovarda Extravagant, womanizer Houvardas (Kouvardas)
Huni Funnel Honi
Hurma Date Hurmas
Huy Habit Houi
Huzur State of harmony Houzouri
Ibrik Pot Briki

Ihlamur Linden Tree Flamouri
Imam Muslim priest Imamis
Imam Bayildi A dish Imam Baildi
Irgat Agricultural worker Ergatis
Iskelet Skeleton Skeletos
Ispanak Spinach Spanaki
Iskambil Playing cards Skambili
Iskarpin Shoe Skarpini
Iskandil Sounding lead in guns Skandali
Iskarmoz Oar support Skarmos
Iskarta Defective Skartos
Iskelet Skeleton Skeletos
Iskonto Discount Skonto
Iskorpit A fish Skorpios
Ispinoz Chaffinch Spinos
Istampa Stamp Stampa
Istaka Billiard cue Steka
Istakoz Lobster Astakos
Istavrit A fish Stavritis

Istavroz Cross Stavros
Isteri Hysteria Ysteria
Istridye Oyster Stridi
Izgara Grill Skara
Kabadayi Tough guy Kabadais
Kabuk Shell (of animals etc.) Kabouki
Kadayif Kadaif Kadaifi
Kalabalik Mass of people Kalabaliki
Kalay Solder ( A metal) Kalai
Kalayci Tinker Kalaitzis
Kalamar Squid Kalamari
Kalfa Assistant Kalfas
Kaldirim Sidewalk Kaldirimi
Kalem Pen, chisel Kalemi
Kalip Form Kaloupi
Kalpak Fur Cap Kalpaki
Kalpazan Counterfeiter,lazy Kalpouzanos
Kama Short dagger Kama

Kambur Hunchback Kampouris
Kamci Whip Kamtsiki
Kamyon Truck Kamioni
Kanal Chanel, strait Kanali
Kanepe Sofa Kanapes
Kantar Balance Kantari
Kapak Cover Kapaki
Kaparo Deposit Kaparo
Kaplan Tiger (Hawk in Greek) Kaplani
Kaplama Covering Kaplamas
Karakol Police office,police Karakoli
Karagoz Black eyed,a shadow figure Karagoz
Karanfil Carnation Karafilli
Karamela Candy Karamella
Karavana Meal in the army Karavana
Kardes Brother Kardasis
Karga Crow, a bird Karga
Karides Shrimp Garides
Karpuz Watermelon Karpuzi

Karyola Bed ('Nasty'woman in Greek) Kariola
Karsi Opposite Karsi
Karsilama A dance Karsilamas
Kasa Safe, packing case Kassa
Kasap Butcher Hasapis
Kasar Yellow cheese Kaseri
Kasket Cap Kasketo
Katran Tar Katrani
Kavga Quarrel, fight Kavgas
Kavurma A type of meat cooking Kavourmas
Kayik Small boat Kaiki
Kayikci Seaman Kaiksis
Kayisi Apricot Kaisi
Kaymak Cream Kaimaki
Kazma Pick Kasmas
Kebap Kebap Kebap
Kece Coarse felt Ketses
Keci Goat Katsika
Kefal A fish Kefalos

Kemence A string instrument Kementzes
Kelepir Bargain Kelepouri
Kerata Cuckold Keratas
Kerhane Brothel Kiarhanes
Kerevet Bedstead (bed in G.) Krevati
Kerpeten Pliers Kerpeteni
Kesat Lack of bussiness Kesati
Kese Shallow bowl, purse in T. Keses
Kestane Chestnut Kastano
Keyif Fun Kefi
Kiyma Ground meat Kimas
Kibar Kind, gentle Kibaris
Kiler Store room Kelari
Kilise Church Ecclisia
Kilim Carpet Kilimi
Kilit Lock,( key in Greek) Klidi
Kilot Underpants Kulota
Kimyon Cumin Kymino
Kiraz Cherry Kerasi

Kiremit Tile Keramidi
Kitap Book Kitapi
Klefte Thief, theft Kleftis
Koma Coma Koma
Kofte Meatballs Kafta
Kokona Ugly, old woman Kokona
Kokorec Stuffed, grilled intestine Kokoretsi
Kolonya Eau de Cologne Kolonia
Konak Small Palace Konaki
Konserve Canned food Konserva
Kopil Small boy, rascal Kopeli (Creten)
Korfez Bay, gulf Korfos
Kotra Small boat Kotero
Kova Bucket Kouvas
Kukla Puppet, doll Kukla
Kulanpara Homosexual Kolombaras
Kulube Hut Kalyva
Kundak Baby carriage,gun carriage Kontaki
Kurabiye Cookie Kurambies

Kutu Box Kouti
Kusur Fault Kousouri
Kuzine Kitchen, stove Kouzina
Kupeste Handrail of banisters Koupasti
Lahana Cabbage Lahano
Lakerda Salted, dried fish Lakerda
Lakirdi Talk, gossip Lakirdi
Levrek Bass, a fish Lavraki
Leylek Stork Leleki
Liman Harbour Limani
Limon Lemon Lemoni
Lokum Turkish (Greek) Delight Lukumi
Lufer Blue fish Luferi

etc....

he..he.."greek" language...
Since its inception in 1829, The Former Turkish Province of Yunanistan (modern Greece) has systematically lied to the world about its own and later about Macedonia´s past claiming Macedonia was and still is "Greek". The Former Turkish Province of Yunanistan (modern Greece) has also made claims that only "Greeks" live in The Former Turkish Province of Yunanistan and has literally waged war against people who continued to claim to be non-"Greeks" and against those who refute its official position.

[macedon]

Macun Elixir,potion Mantzuni
Makara Spool Makaras
Marangoz Carpenter Marangos
Mahmur Sleepy Mahmouris
Manastir Monastery Monastiri
Manav Green Grocer Manavis

Mandalina Tangerine Mandarini
Mangal Grill Mangali
Manolya A flower Manolia
Mantar Mushroom Manitari
Manyak Maniac Manyakos
Marazi Morbid, hysterical Marazi
Marul Lettuce Maruli
Mastika Raki, ouzo Mastiha
Mavna Fishing boat Mavna
Mavro Negro (slang) Mavro
Maydanoz Parsley Maidanos
Meltem Summer wind Meltemi
Menekse Violet Menekses
Mengene Press, screw jack clamp Mengeni
Mersin Myrtle Myrsini
Metazori By force, by threat Me ta zori
Metelik Small money Metaliki
Meydan Square Meidani
Meze Snack Mezes

Midye Mussel Mydi
Mikrop Microbe Mikrobio
Misafir Guest Musafiris
Musakka A dish Musakas
Musmula A fruit Mousmoula
Muze Museum Mousio
Narenciye Orange like fruits Nerantzi
Nargile Tobacco pipe Nargiles
Naz Reluctance Nazi
Oglan Boy (Bad boy in G.) Ts-oglani
Okka Measure of weight Oka
Okyanus Ocean Okeanos
Orfoz A fish Rofos
Orman Forest Roumani
Pabuc Shoe Papoutsi
Paca A soup Patsas
Pacoz Ugly,dirty Patsoura
Palamar Rope for the boat Palamari
Palamut A fish Palamuti

Pancur Shutters Pantzouri
Pantalon Trousers Panteloni
Para Money Paras
Parali Rich Paralis
Paskalya Easter Pashalia
Pasta Cake, pleat Pasta
Pastirma Dried meat Pastourmas
Patates Potatoes Patates
Patlican Eggplant Patlatzani
Patirdi Noise Patirdi
Pazar Market Pazari
Panayir Fair Panigyri
Papara A dish Papara
Papaz Priest Papas
Parazit Parasite Parasito
Pavurya Edible crab, spider crab Kavouria
Perde Curtain Berdes
Pezevenk Pimp Pezevengis
Pide Pita Pita

Pilav Rice Pilafi
Pilaki Beans with onion and oil Fasolia plaki
Pirasa Leek Praso
Pirzola Steak Brizola
Piskopos Orthodox bishop Episkopos
Portakal Oranges Portokali
Rahat Rest, relaxation Rahati
Raki Raki, ouzo Raki
Recina Resin Retsini
Revani A dessert Revani
Rezil Ridiculed, embaressment Rezili
Sabun Soap Sapuni
Sahan Small frying pan Sagani
Sakat Cripple Sakatis
Salep A hot drink Salepi
Salya Saliva Salia
Salyangoz Snail Saliangos
Sandal Open shoe Sandali
Sardalya Sardines Sardela

Sarik Turban Sariki
Sarraf Money and gold changer Sarafis
Saz A string instrument Sazi
Sazan A fish Sazani
Semer Saddle Samari
Sersem Fool Sersemis
Soba Stove for room heating Soba
Sokak Street Sokaki
Soy Relatives, ancestors Soi
Simit Ring shaped bread roll Simiti
Siftah First sale of the day Seftes
Sevda Love, sorrow Sevdas
Siva Construction bond Sovas
Siktir Get out of here! Sihtiri
Sinik Measure of cereals Sniki
Somya Bedstead (metal) Somies
Sunger Sponge Sfungari
Sucuk Sausages Soutzouki
Sultan Sultan Soultan

Sumbul Hyacinth Zoumbouli
Susam Sesame Sousami
Supya Cuttlefish Soupia
Salvar Loose trousers Salvari
Samar Slap in the face Siamara
Samata Noise Samatas
Sapsal Stupid Sapsalis
Serbet Sherbet Serbeti
Serit Stripe, chevron Siriti
Seyran Walk, stroll Seriani
Takim Set, shift of workmen Takimi
Takoz Wedge Takos
Takunya Heel of shoe, wooden shoe Takouni
Tambur An instrument Tambouras
Tamah Greed Tamahi
Tapa Cork, stopper Tapa
Taraca Terrace Taratsa
Tarama A seafood appetizer Taramas
Tarhana A soup Trahanas

Tavan Ceiling Tavani
Tavla Backgammon Tavli
Tel Chord, string Teli
Temel Foundation Themelio
Tembel Lazy Tembelis
Tencere Cooking pot Tentzeris
Teneke Tin Tenekes
Tepe Hill Tepes
Tepsi Baking tin Tapsi
Tersane Shipyard Tarsanas
Tertip Trick Tertipi
Torba Sack, bag Ntorvas
Tombeki Tobacco pipe Toumbeki
Top Ball Topi
Turlu A dish of mixed vegetables Tourlou
Tursu Pickle Toursi
Tugla Brick Touvlo, touvla (plural)
Tulumba Pump, a dessert Touloumba
Tufek Gun Toufeki

Uskumru A fish Skumbri
Vaftiz To baptise Vaftisi
Varil Barrel, cask Vareli
Vernik Varnish Verniki
Veresiye On credit Verese
Yahni Sort of ragout, a dish Yahni
Yaka Collar Yakas
Yali Shore, beach Yalos
Yapi Construction Yapi
Yasemin Jasmine Yasemi
Yelek Waist coat Yeleki
Zar Die, dice Zari
Zarif Elegant Zarifis
Zargana Needlefish Zargana
Zembil Flat straw basket Zembili
Zevzek Silly, superficial Zeuzekis
Zeybek A dance Zeibekikos
Zifiri Darkness Zoferos
Zor Force, trouble, difficulty Zori

Zurna A wind instrument Zurnas
Zuluf Lock of hair Tsouloufi

etc....

he..he.."greek" language.
Since its inception in 1829, The Former Turkish Province of Yunanistan (modern Greece) has systematically lied to the world about its own and later about Macedonia´s past claiming Macedonia was and still is "Greek". The Former Turkish Province of Yunanistan (modern Greece) has also made claims that only "Greeks" live in The Former Turkish Province of Yunanistan and has literally waged war against people who continued to claim to be non-"Greeks" and against those who refute its official position.

[macedon]

Clear signs of change are revealed in the travel diaries of the German
scholar Ludwig Ross (1851), when he accompanied the Bavarian Otto, whom
the Allies had foisted as king upon the newly freed Greek nation in the aftermath
of the War of Independence in the 1830s. Ross praises the well-built Greek
villages of central Greece with their healthy, happy, dancing inhabitants, and
contrasts them specifically with the hovels and sickly inhabitants of Albanian
villages. In fact, recent scholarship has underlined how far it was the West that
built modern Greece in its own fanciful image as the land of a long-oppressed
people who were the direct descendants of Pericles.
This Western creation of "the glorious continuing story of the Greek People"
has been epitomized recently in the publication of multi-volume popular
encyclopedias such as "The History of the Greek Nation" and marked even more
recently by hysterical reactions to the supposed threat posed by the Republic
of Macedonia—not least merely by appropriating the name "Macedonia."
Being saddled with such a foundation charter from the early years of independence
has forced the Greek education system and state propaganda to focus the
survival of the struggling young nation onto what Benedict Anderson (1991) has
termed the "imagined community" of Greeks.

The Greek-speakers would have called themselves, ironically, "Romioi" or
"Romans" to signify the Byzantine claim to continuity with the Eastern Roman
Empire—and hence were part of the communities called "Rum" by the Ottomans.

[macedon]

The Athenian women are neither beautiful nor well made ; they have neither the lively physiognomy of Frenchwomen, nor the full rich beauty of the Eoman dames, nor the pale, white delicacy of the Turkish women—one sees nothing in the town but ugly creatures with broad noses, flat feet, and ill- formed waists.

It is because Athens, twenty-five years ago, was only an Albanian village.

The Albanians formed, and still form, almost the whole of the population of Attica ; and within three leagues of the capital, villages are to be found where Greek is hardly understood. Athens has been rapidly peopled with men of all kinds and nations; that explains the ugliness of the Athenian type. Beautiful Greek women, and these are rare, are only to be met with in certain privileged islands, or in some nooks of the mountains where intruders have not penetrated.

The men, on the contrary, are handsome and well-made throughout all the kingdom. Their great height, slender body, thin face, long bent nose, and large moustache, give them a martial air. They sometimes preserve till seventy years old a slender waist and a free and easy gait; with them obesity is an unknown evil, and the gouty are the only persons that grow corpulent.

It is a fact worth observing, that the so-called national costume of the Greeks is borrowed either from the Turks or the Albanians. King Otho, to show his patriotism and to make himself popular, puts on on feast-days the dress of a small nation of Slavs; and the sailors of Hydra, to distinguish themselves from the barbarians of the West, adorn themselves with a Turkish costume.

greeks?
no..
greeks=mix=albanians+turks

[macedon]

CONVENTION CONCERNING THE EXCHANGE OF GREEK AND TURKISH POPULATIONS (TREATY OF LAUSANNE, 13. JANUARY 1923)

The Government of the Grand National Assembly of Turkey and the Greek Government have agreed upon the following provisions:

Article 1
As from the 1st May, 1923, there shall take place a compulsory exchange of Turkish nationals of the Greek Orthodox religion established in Turkish territory, and of Greek nationals of the Moslem religion established in Greek territory....

Are the Greeks orthodox Turks ?
YES

[PainKiller]

Athens
Sparta
Alexander the Great
Greek Mythology is amazing.
Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, Hestia, Hera, Aris, Athena, Apollo, Hermes, Aphodite, Artemis. Nemesis etc. Grew up reading those faschinating tales.
Olympic Games.
Great Thinkers and poets.
Democracy.
Beaches
Beautiful people.
Moussaka
Pita
Baklava
Gyros
Great Olive oil
Very Hot tempered People.
I know couple of greek folks, they remind me of Italians-very hyper and loud-in a good way.

[PainKiller]

Ah, How could I forgot to mention the Zaziki? I like mine a bit tangy, with less garlic.:D

[dauphin]

Accidental champions of Euro-2004 :lol:

[silbermond]

f*** economy, paying everything with checks=) that is why no one will invest in greece except tourism sector.